Hey there, I’m just wondering how the interaction between the two would work.
The feat reads “ For 1 round, any creature that touches you, or that hits you with a melee unarmed attack or a non-reach melee weapon attack, takes 1d4 electricity damage.” I’m more focused on the first part. What constitutes as touching here? Would a grapple, initiated from either side, be considered touching? (Would the damage be every time someone initiates a grapple?) Would an unarmed strike from the inventor gain 1d4 electricity damage that stacks with offensive boost? (I assume no, but doesn’t hurt to ask.) if I do a trip, a disarm, a shove (maybe even a tamper) with my free hand, is the 1d4 added in?
Just wondering what “touches you” means here.
Thanks for your time!
All those Athletic maneuvers for sure would be enough contact to send a shock.
The only one I think is a bit ambiguous would the unarmed attacks of the Inventor.
While somewhat ambiguous, I think the feat clearly stating foe swings get jolted would be enough for me to rule that the Inventor's do as well.
The framing of the feat's ability is a little different from most "reactively harm an attacker" effects, in that Electrify Armor specifies "touches you," when there's usually wording that is a little more 'impact-needed' than that.
As the feat is about making contact, if the foe's quick punch is enough, then the Inventor's quick punch should also trigger it.
All those Athletic maneuvers for sure would be enough contact to send a shock.
The only one I think is a bit ambiguous would the unarmed attacks of the Inventor.While somewhat ambiguous, I think the feat clearly stating foe swings get jolted would be enough for me to rule that the Inventor's do as well.
The framing of the feat's ability is a little different from most "reactively harm an attacker" effects, in that Electrify Armor specifies "touches you," when there's usually wording that is a little more 'impact-needed' than that.
As the feat is about making contact, if the foe's quick punch is enough, then the Inventor's quick punch should also trigger it.
That’s what I’ve been thinking honestly, but so far the group I’m in says it’s only when the opponent initiates maneuvers against me. I feel that’s super semantic, but I guess I’ll have to wait to see if I can get more opinions to support my side, or a straight answer. Thanks for the reply!
I'm also in the camp that 'touches you' is something that an enemy does. You touching them doesn't qualify.
So when you grapple them or trip them or punch them in the face, that is you touching them. You don't add bonus electricity damage to that.
If they cast a 'range: touch' spell on you or grapple you or trip you, then that is them touching you and the Electrify Armor ability triggers.
The reason for that is more than just semantics, though semantics is part of it. The ability looks to be designed as a defensive ability that retaliates against attacks - not as an offense ability to add bonus damage to attacks.
As for semantics:
As the feat is about making contact, if the foe's quick punch is enough, then the Inventor's quick punch should also trigger it.
are you actually punching them with your electrified armor?
We shouldn't need to modify game mechanics based on particular details of narrative description. The mechanics of the game should be clear and consistent and support multiple different narrations.
The mechanical behavior of Electrify Armor shouldn't change depending on if I describe my armor as a simple breastplate and describe my punch as being made with a fist, as opposed to describing my armor as full plate with gauntlets or describing my unarmed attack as a 'shoulder check with my armor's shoulder plate'.
I'm also in the camp that 'touches you' is something that an enemy does. You touching them doesn't qualify.
So when you grapple them or trip them or punch them in the face, that is you touching them. You don't add bonus electricity damage to that.
If they cast a 'range: touch' spell on you or grapple you or trip you, then that is them touching you and the Electrify Armor ability triggers.
The reason for that is more than just semantics, though semantics is part of it. The ability looks to be designed as a defensive ability that retaliates against attacks - not as an offense ability to add bonus damage to attacks.
True. Definitely understandable.
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I agree with Finoan for all the reasons stated by Finoan. However, as a mostly GM, I would add one other reason to interpret it that way: enemies.
There are quite a few monsters with abilities that use the same trigger, and I don't think many players would want those abilities to trigger on a monster's Strike as well.
You electrify your armor to punish foes who dare to attack you. For 1 round, any creature that touches you, or that hits you with a melee unarmed attack or a non-reach melee weapon attack
The inventor attacking someone is not "a creature touches you", since "touches you" is a thing that the creature does. It's not something that is done to them.
Between that and the first sentence being a statement of intent that this is a defensive thing, and it's pretty clear that the Inventors attacks don't trigger this. That includes manouvers: the inventor grabbing someone doesn't trigger this either.
Fun fact, though: An ally casting a touch spell on the Inventor would trigger it.
I agree with Finoan for all the reasons stated by Finoan. However, as a mostly GM, I would add one other reason to interpret it that way: enemies.
There are quite a few monsters with abilities that use the same trigger, and I don't think many players would want those abilities to trigger on a monster's Strike as well.
Yeah agreed, this is a good rule of thumb. If a player wants this ruling, the NPCs also get it. And the rest of the players probably do not want that.
I've used that a fair bit whenever someone wants to do something that is sketchy like this: "Sure, but it applies to the monsters too."
Often times they go "oh, nevermind."