Hopefully this is a simple question:
The Card Caster states:
[Arcane Pool Focus]
A card caster’s arcane pool can be used to augment only ranged weapons. At 5th level, a card caster can use his arcane pool to add the following weapon special abilities to ranged weapons: brilliant energy, distance, flaming, flaming burst, frost, icy burst, returning, seeking, shock, shocking burst, and speed. He can use his arcane pool to augment an entire harrow deck as if it were ammunition. All cards from a deck enhanced with a special ability, such as flaming, must share the same bonus. This ability modifies arcane pool.
Does a Magus with the paired Card Caster/Staff Magus Archetypes retain any ability to use its Arcane Pool to enhance melee weapons?
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It looks like you are limited to only enhancing ranged weapons. I’m sure you will still have fun playing Gambit though.
Hehehe
that's pretty much what I deduced, and likely what my GM will rule, though will admit to hoping otherwise
and figured I may as well, I already have a Storm-esque character
for my "Gambit" I did decide on a half-orc to be different, and to be really different, he's from Blackmoor (we're in the Greyhawk setting)
and I'm guessing that includes not being able to imbue a +1-+5 weapon combat enhancement to a melee weapon as well
oh and for those that will likely comment on other race/class/archetype/weapon combinations/options...what I chose are set in stone. I'm in this for the ROLE playing, NOT the ROLL playing (I did that in the 80s and 90s)
Card Caster has a couple of "we didn't parse the language closely enough" problems.
1) You can only augment ranged weapons with your arcane pool, but some of the properties (returning) are designed for thrown weapons. You can definitely do a Harrowed Spellstrike with thrown weapons. Unfortunately the definition of a thrown weapon is a bit murky. The CRB says "Melee weapons are used for making melee attacks, though some of them can be thrown as well. Ranged weapons are thrown weapons or projectile weapons that are not effective in melee." A dagger is a melee weapon that can be thrown. Any weapon can be (poorly) thrown. So can you augment a dagger? Do the properties only apply when throwing it? How about a greatsword, if you throw it? Or can you do a Harrowed Spellstrike with both those, but not augment either?
(For what it's worth, my GM answer is that you can augment any weapon, but any bonuses only apply when you throw it.)
2) It doesn't change Spell Combat at all. That means you can only do Spell Combat while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in one hand and nothing in the other. And that Spell Combat still means making melee attacks (except for the Spellstrike). So if you do want to use Spell Combat, you have to make your normal melee attacks (with a -2 penalty), then cast your spell. If it's a Harrowed Spellstrike, you need Quick Draw to grab that card (or whatever) to throw.
Now, granted, this is what Gambit does all the time. But it's pretty dangerous to make thrown attacks while you are in melee combat in PF1.
Safe to say that more than just Card Caster has those language problems ;)
Regarding 1) I'm good with "thrown" meaning "ranged" in this instance overall, my primary concern was over using the Arcane Pool to grant a melee weapon a +1-+5 combat bonus...though it is looking that most likely that is not possible. I'll adapt and figure out how to work out the tactics
On 2) That much I pretty much understood, with Close-Quarters Thrower being high on my list for a future feat (however I better read that feat again, been a long time since I've had a character with it). At this moment the character is a backup in case current character has an untimely demise
Advice is appreciated, thank you.
Any other interpretations, or implementation advice that pertain to the question?
Magus Card Caster archetype
Sorcerer Harrow Bloodline
AoN "harrow" and Deadly Dealer (a core feat equating cards to darts)
I'd mostly agree with Belafon. You'll need a GM to straighten out some of the wrinkles and thus we move into chat as GM opinion is going to play a role.
As I see it you have [cards as thrown improvised weapon]->[card as thrown ammo] then adding arcane pool abilities to the deck ("but also to invest each card with deadly power").
So treating the cards as weapons is the general intent but the text gets tricky and I think Harrowed Spellstrike can work with daggers, darts, or shuriken(? it gets fuzzy). Working with spears/javelins seems unintentional but they did intentionally waffle on the verbiage as they could have simply just said "cards"/"darts". I think the intent was to avoid other ammo like arrows or crossbow bolts and make a bolt Magus... *sigh*... as now you have a throwing shield or net or deer horn knife Magus...
Some of the Harrow Decks are valuable, so "Returning" is there to save the card. Can you apply "durable" to the cards?
Comments: There were some interesting things with flavor that came out in that product and demo scenario for PFS. The problem was more on the mechanics side as it was clearly a push to sell product.
Overall it wasn't as effective in the game as I had hoped. I'm not sure mixing archetypes will address that as you'll still need a GM to 'clarify' the mechanics of how this is gonna work.
Azothath wrote: Magus Card Caster archetype
Sorcerer Harrow Bloodline
AoN "harrow" and Deadly Dealer (a core feat equating cards to darts)
...
in summary my advice is to just replace "ammo" or "thrown weapon" with "dart, shuriken, or card" in various RAW statements dealing with harrow and things should work out. Daggers are an optional add based on class archetype.
I think it is reasonable for GMs to allow "durable" for 1 gp per card to be applied or masterwork at 300gp for the whole deck (rather than 10gp per item). A RAW Harrow deck (54-59 cards) is 100gp.
One forum thread I read as I was researching, the OP suggested, and I'm in support of this idea, was that the deck was the "weapon" with each card thus being treated as individual pieces of "ammo".
The Deadly Dealer feat itself states "A spellcaster with this feat can enhance a deck of cards as though it were a ranged weapon with 54 pieces of ammunition."
And my train of thought compared the deck to say a an "ultralight" repeating crossbow (think paintball marker or airsoft gun) with the clip holding 54 pieces of "ammo" (paintballs or airsoft pellets) with the charge equating to the amount of CO2 that the "marker/gun" holds before the charge dissipates (marker/gun runs out of CO2).
The caster charges (fills the CO2) the "crossbow" (deck) and then fires the "crossbow mini-bolt" (throws/flicks the cards).
And I also like the idea, and again, in favor of allowing other ranged weapons to fall into the ammo category (ie, daggers, darts, shuriken, etc) and thus be used with Harrowed Spellstrike, though I will mention that I'm also good with that ability as written, so to a degree it's not a major concern of mine.
I also looked into history and powers of Gambit and noticed he also charges his staff and other melee weapons with his powers, thus revealing he could charge pretty much anything he touches (a Magus with the standard Arcane Pool and the Card Caster's Arcane Pool Focus abilities)...thinking we all just got caught up with him focusing on playing cards in the comics, which is a very unique way to utilize his ability, and so didn't really pay attention or notice when he did that on anything other than a deck of cards.
So, my next question is this one - Is there any way that a Card Caster, or just a standard Magus, to apply Arcane Pool/Ranged Pool Focus, Spellcombat, Spellstrike/Harrowed Spellstrike and Role Dealer to both melee and ranged/thrown weapons; or is that aspect something that the character would have to develop on his own over time/gameplay (ie, player and GM would have to work out)?
The more I dig, the more I'm willing to blow off the Staff Magi altogether (not so set in stone as more information is acquired) if necessary to get my vision of Gambit as close to comic accurate as I can (at least in my mind).
intent is a very slippery slope. Consider that person A writes the text, editor E edits it, Layout L says they need room for art and cuts out 3 words relying on editor E to fix it who looks at meeting with writers A, B and C to fix it....
It's worse for RPG line which is more reviewed.
I will say Gambit as a Marvel Intellectual Property is being avoided by Paizo.
People often try to creatively interpret RAW into what they want.
The aether kineticist is another option for building a Gambit. It even has some thieving options built in.
Regarding the Kineticist - see original post.
It's out of the question. The Burn "ability" is garbage, and worse than the Enervation some psionic classes suffer - sustain physical damage (albeit nonlethal) over a chance to suffer a conditional effect (staggered, exhausted, etc). Takes rest to eliminate (8+ hrs; effectively ending any further adventuring, and may result in a TPK in an encounter situation) vs a few minutes (may get character killed, but unlikely for a TPK; and which may be ended with application of proper spells)
So no way on the Kineticist (if the GM allowed 3rd party Id consider it, or better yet a psionic character)
If you enhance your staff with the "Throwing", it should then count as a ranged weapon and you can use your Arcane Pool for it.
Well, I found a method to apply an Arcane Pool-like weapon enhancement to both melee and ranged weapons.
I broke my personal class rule for this concept, and went with a multiclassed Bard (Arcane Duelist)/Rogue (Survivalist).
The weapon boost is delayed, but can be applied to ANY weapon when it kicks in.
Besides, other powers of gambit (the emotion control) fits the Bard way better than what's offered by the Magus (Card Caster/Staff Magus) by a long shot.
The Rogue class also fulfills my personal interpretation of gambit's thieves guild background, with Survivalist more for flavor and personal playing style, than fitting the traditional gambit mold.
Again, dont wanna hear about how others think the Arcane Duelist is a poor choice. To them I say, learn how to ROLE play rather than ROLL play.
Build a CHARACTER not a set of numbers with a name.
A compromise solution would be for the Staff Magus to pick up the Arcane Dealer arcana at 6th level. This would give him access to the Deadly Dealer feat, which in turn would allow him to treat cards as darts and use his arcane pool to grant them an enhancement bonus as though they were a ranged weapon with 54 pieces of ammunition.
The obvious disadvantage is that this roundabout Gambit doesn't get to use spell combat or spellstrike with his deck of cards.
I considered that, and as stated before, my main goal was using the Arcane Pool enhancement for ALL weapons - melee AND ranged, not just one category, and single classed Magus (Staff Magus) really lacks the feel of a Gambit-esque character.
Spellstrike should be considered an OPTIONAL Gambit aspect, besides cast on the defensive with that free Combat Casting at L2 and one can still have a really decent chance at spellcasting while in melee.
Remember, he also has that emotional control aspect, which is frequently overlooked by the comics AND fans, almost to the point of being ignored outright. Bardic abilities and a focus on charm spells fills that function nicely.
Add the fact that a Magus REQUIRES a spellbook (I hate spellbooks and the like), while a standard Bard doesnt is also more Gambit appropriate.
In a sense, his kinetic charging is very much like that of the character Harpoon - its a total combat enhancer, and Gambit uses it in both melee AND ranged/thrown combat, AND can be applied to more than just playing cards/ranged weapons (which is what most focus on, including myself, when the Magus was first introduced)
Curative spells also cover Gambit's healing capability, at least when he is more powerful, to heal wounds. So, again, the Bard is more fitting to his overall personality and capabilities.
Plus an Arcane Duelist includes most Rogue skills, better starting skill points and selection (Magus sucks on both aspects), SAME HD and BAB, same armor limitations as Magus (though the Arcane Duelist can actually improve his available armor options at higher levels for free, while a Card Caster/Staff Magus cannot unless feats are used or is using a magical staff), spontaneous spells (spell slots offer much greater flexibility over memorization, and are a better fit mutant powers, needing a spellbook is a limitation in a gambit instance - though this is mitigated by the future acquisition of a free Arcane Bond), Bardic abilities and spells that better duplicate Emotion Control and Kinetic Healing
With Arcane Duelist, you have a replicate of the Magus Arcane Pool, albeit must be higher level to acquire. Throw in a dip into Rogue (Gambit was a member of the Lousiana/New Orleans Thieves' Guild after all) for 2-4 levels for a few extra skill points, Trapfinding, Trap/Danger Sense, 1 or 2 die of sneak attack, 1 or 2 talents (archetype optional and may alter features gained), Evasion (L2) and possibly Uncanny Dodge (L4), and, in my opinion, the resulting character is a better Gambit match than a Magus's Card Caster/Staff Magus archetype combo that is touted, wrongfully imo again, by so many
In the end, my view is that Gambit is a buffer/debuffer (and that includes ranged damage) character first, and melee combatant second.
Post combat, those cure wounds spells are damn handy if any slots are available if one wants to preserve the Cleric's available spells
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