....yeah alright, fair enough. I've been making changes to account for my own campaign world state anyway, I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't something obvious that I was missing in regards to *why* it was still undiscovered.
So, lore question;
The Risen Runelord ritual can only be performed on a runelord that isn't currently alive or undead, but it's also "just" a hyper-real illusion supplemented by dreamstuff.
...so is the runelord's actual soul used, and the illusion and dreamstuff are just used to "fill in the gaps" since it's not a proper resurrection? Or are the risen runelords purely simulacra, with only the template of the original's personality and memories, but no souls of their own, and there's just something about their soul still being around that prevents the ritual from working?
Creative Director
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So, lore question;
The Risen Runelord ritual can only be performed on a runelord that isn't currently alive or undead, but it's also "just" a hyper-real illusion supplemented by dreamstuff.
...so is the runelord's actual soul used, and the illusion and dreamstuff are just used to "fill in the gaps" since it's not a proper resurrection? Or are the risen runelords purely simulacra, with only the template of the original's personality and memories, but no souls of their own, and there's just something about their soul still being around that prevents the ritual from working?
The runelord's soul isn't touched (which is why this ritual can work on a runelord whose soul has been judged and gone on to their afterlife and potentially even become a fiend or have been absorbed into the quintessence of reality), but it does draw upon all of that runelord's residual "legacy" in reality to create what it creates, so only one can exist at a time.
You can think of the raise runelord ritual as a more powerful and more focused version of the shadow double ritual (Player Core 2, page 270), or going back to the OGL roots, a more powerful simulacrum ritual. In fact, if you want to have a bunch of these sorts of things all at the same time, those rituals are the solution—but note that the thing created will be less powerful than a risen runelord.
Mkay, so even if one of them (Karzoug for example) were to remember every detail of their life and death and even his battle with the Sihedron Heroes, it's ultimately just a fake. A very, very realistic fake, but ultimately a soulless construct rather than the original.
....wonder how the Risen feel about that. Especially since, at least as written, there's room for the GM to have them grow beyond what the ritual creates them as.
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Creative Director
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Mkay, so even if one of them (Karzoug for example) were to remember every detail of their life and death and even his battle with the Sihedron Heroes, it's ultimately just a fake. A very, very realistic fake, but ultimately a soulless construct rather than the original.
....wonder how the Risen feel about that. Especially since, at least as written, there's room for the GM to have them grow beyond what the ritual creates them as.
The risen are self aware enough to be pretty frustrated about their inability to grow in power, but in this campaign, where they first appear, they don't have much agency to do much about it. That said, the ritual is now a proverbial cat out of the bag, and as detailed on page 66 of the third volume in "Beyond the Campaign" under "Return of the Risen Runelords," some risen runelords (be they ones who escaped being killed in this campaign, or new ones created after the campaign) might seek out a way to find a way to break free from these limitations.
Spoiler for Return to the Ruins of Greyhawk:
It's all variatons on Frankenstein, of course.
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Is there any reason that the dream sequences at the beginning need to happen with the party already in New Thassilon? The call to action seems to come after the dreams in the current state.
Does anything get messed up if the party meets each other in the dream first before they travel to New Thassilon?
I'm trying to make the party meeting as dynamic as possible as two of the party will be coming from Seven Dooms but the other two are looking for surprise reveals as to who they are playing for the game.
Thank you in advance
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Creative Director
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I'd've said Pinocchio, but ok.It's all variatons on Frankenstein, of course.
Also a good comparison. I mentioned Frankenstein because my personal interests and inclinations veer toward horror and so that story is and always will be more at the forefront of my mind than Pinocchio in this case... but also now I'm wondering how much influence Frankenstein (first published in 1818) had on Pinocchio (first published in 1883). AKA: I would argue that Pinocchio is a variation on Frankenstein as well. :-)
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Creative Director
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Is there any reason that the dream sequences at the beginning need to happen with the party already in New Thassilon? The call to action seems to come after the dreams in the current state.
Does anything get messed up if the party meets each other in the dream first before they travel to New Thassilon?
I'm trying to make the party meeting as dynamic as possible as two of the party will be coming from Seven Dooms but the other two are looking for surprise reveals as to who they are playing for the game.
Thank you in advance
The main reason is because I felt like having a long travel sequence from Point A to Xin-Eurythnia would disrupt the narrative flow of the adventure. It also allowed us to publish the Player's Guide in a way that tells the players they start in Xin-Eurythnia, so it's not a weird spoiler for us to give them more information about the starting location in the player's guide.
If you're transitioning from Seven Dooms, then I would maybe suggest having the PCs get their invitations from Sorshen soon after, and have her mention specifically that their work and heroics have attracted her attention and that she feels like they'd be GREAT representatives at the opening ceremonies in Xin-Eurythnia to represent Varisia, and then have the dream happen that very night... perhaps even implying that the dream event was triggered by powerful forces noticing Sorshen's attention (or noticing the PCs for the same reasons), so that they have the dream in their beds in Sandpoint. Then when they wake, I strongly advice to "expedite mode" their journey from Sandpoint to Xin-Eurythnia. Most players of Adventure Paths seem eager to advance the plot—one of our common player complaints is against encounters that feel like "speed bumps" and don't directly advance the perception of the main story. If your group doesn't fall into this category and/or your players are eager to play out an extensive overland journey, then this is a place RIPE for GM expansion.
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In the part where runelords mounted on dragon attack the party, the book mention "a risen Runelord of Greed named Atharend", but according to the runelord legacy article appearing in the first book of return of the runelords, there is no runelord of greed named atharend, the only runelord named atharend is the second runelord of gluttony : "2: ATHAREND –6258 ar to –6150 ar (male, 108 years)"
So my question is : is it an error on the school mentionned, and the book wanted to mention the runelord of gluttony ? Is is juste a mistake on the name, and this runelord was in fact an other runelord of greed ? Is it something else ?
Thanks in advance for the response
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Creative Director
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In the part where runelords mounted on dragon attack the party, the book mention "a risen Runelord of Greed named Atharend", but according to the runelord legacy article appearing in the first book of return of the runelords, there is no runelord of greed named atharend, the only runelord named atharend is the second runelord of gluttony : "2: ATHAREND –6258 ar to –6150 ar (male, 108 years)"
So my question is : is it an error on the school mentionned, and the book wanted to mention the runelord of gluttony ? Is is juste a mistake on the name, and this runelord was in fact an other runelord of greed ? Is it something else ?
Thanks in advance for the response
It's an error on the school mentioned.
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Is there any reason that the dream sequences at the beginning need to happen with the party already in New Thassilon? The call to action seems to come after the dreams in the current state.
Does anything get messed up if the party meets each other in the dream first before they travel to New Thassilon?
I'm trying to make the party meeting as dynamic as possible as two of the party will be coming from Seven Dooms but the other two are looking for surprise reveals as to who they are playing for the game.
Thank you in advance
I think it can work as a cause to travel, but IMO it fits best happening once the party is there, just because of the region's connection to Leng/the Dimension of Dreams. Just sorta feels like the kind of thing that happens more easily *because* the party is there.
So for anyone who's made it to the end of the book, did you run the final encounter as written? I feel like the "final boss" of the book being a hazard that takes the form of Xanderghul to be kinda cool...but also the fact that the party fights 5 Risen Runelords through book 1 that are all level 11 feels kinda...ehhhh. Has anyone adjusted the encounter to maybe slap Weak onto the stone bulwarks and adjust Angothane and Thybidos to be the level 14 Risen Runelords that otherwise never show up in the adventure but can be made with the ritual?
It raises the XP of the encounter a bit, but it reveals that the Risen aren't all identical in power and would make the final 2 Risen a bit more threatening...but it comes at the cost of them overshadowing Xanderghul's shade in the hazard (which is already a -1 creature).
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Alright, we'll see how it goes. It'll be at least 2 weeks, probably 3 or 4, before my party gets there, but I applied Weak to all 4 Stone Bulwarks and I followed the creature building guidelines to scale up Risen Thyblidos and Angothane to level 14 statblocks (which was almost entirely +3s and +4s and +60 HP), and adding 7th rank spells.
But I'm also going to start giving each Risen that's above level 11 a unique ability.
Angothane's Demonic Fury, calling from his service as Nocticula's (unwitting) assassin and his fate as a balor, he gets a 1 action spellshape that costs 1 mythic point to use, and can only be used on a spell of 5th rank or lower. The affected spell foregoes rolling damage and automatically deals its maximum value. (He had Maximize back in 1e and it's fitting!)
Thybidos' Serpentine Spell, evoking the power of serpents, Thybidos' ability is also a spellshape that costs 1 mythic point to use. There's no rank limitation on his, and when cast with a Line spell, he can rotate the line up to 90 degrees at one point along its path.
Both also raise the spell's attack roll/DC by 4 since they're at "mythic proficiency"
The encounter is 150xp worth now, but my players are Dual Class so it's fine. Probably. I did upgrade the +2 mace reward to a +3 though. Since we're using automatic rune progression, runes don't actually have a monetary value. We shall see how it goes.
I would have LOVED to have given each risen runelord a bespoke stat block with their own spells and items and a better variance in level, but... 96 pages is 96 pages.
Is is it to much to hope that, with your no doubt busy schedule, we might see some blog posts going over the bare bone features for such stat blocks? Not full right ups of course (you are too busy for that), base stats lines, character levels, gear list, and unique abilities, would all be brilliant in and of itself. Everything else GMs can easily fill in.
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Creative Director
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I would have LOVED to have given each risen runelord a bespoke stat block with their own spells and items and a better variance in level, but... 96 pages is 96 pages.Is is it to much to hope that, with your no doubt busy schedule, we might see some blog posts going over the bare bone features for such stat blocks? Not full right ups of course (you are too busy for that), base stats lines, character levels, gear list, and unique abilities, would all be brilliant in and of itself. Everything else GMs can easily fill in.
"Cutting room floor" content isn't something we do on our blog, and it's also something that I personally prefer to avoid doing these days anyway for time management reasons for the most part.
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"Cutting room floor" content isn't something we do on our blog, and it's also something that I personally prefer to avoid doing these days anyway for time management reasons for the most part.
I figured something along those lines. Oh well. Guess I will have to get off my arse and start homebrewing.
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No reason we can't make it a communal effort. The "fixes" here aren't as substantial as stuff needed back in Wrath of the Righteous, but I remember a pretty active thread there that was all about homebrewed solutions to balance problems.
We can collectively do something similar with the Risen and the Doomsday Doors in book 2.
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No reason we can't make it a communal effort. The "fixes" here aren't as substantial as stuff needed back in Wrath of the Righteous, but I remember a pretty active thread there that was all about homebrewed solutions to balance problems.
We can collectively do something similar with the Risen and the Doomsday Doors in book 2.
If something we publish inspires GMs to expand on things to make it MORE, then I consider that one of the signs of a successful adventure, honestly. It's easy to forget that while playing a published adventure is an interactive experience as players make choices and GMs adapt, reading and preparing an adventure can also be interactive. It's one of the things that's made me such a fan of tabletop RPGs pretty much my whole life—they invite and encourage reader interactivity and cooperation and spark the imagination in ways that non-interactive media can not.
I've a question about the beginning of Chapter 2. The PCs are suppose to save vs the Nightmare effect each day, but even if they fail, the effect of Fatigue doesn't do anything to the skill actions for the downtime activities for preparing the exodus nor does it prevent downtime activities. Am I missing something outside of the "building up a future encounter"? Or is there something more to the effects of a nightmare spell?
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Creative Director
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I've a question about the beginning of Chapter 2. The PCs are suppose to save vs the Nightmare effect each day, but even if they fail, the effect of Fatigue doesn't do anything to the skill actions for the downtime activities for preparing the exodus nor does it prevent downtime activities. Am I missing something outside of the "building up a future encounter"? Or is there something more to the effects of a nightmare spell?
Fatigue only affects exploration activities performed while traveling. That would impact exploration activities made during the exodus. It doesn't prevent downtime. It also impacts AC and saves normally.