Seneschal Witch's "Manifest Will" uses a basic reflex save

[Ajaxius]

Anybody know how this works with the effects it has listed? None of them do damage, and are all just simple effects, like granting temp HP, adding spell weakness, etc.

For context: https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=2147

As far as I can tell, this would mean that a creature in the area takes a basic reflex save to... do nothing, and then is affected regardless of its save.

[Claxon]

This seems like a potentially poorly edited spell.

It has the subtle trait, but the fact that you're concealed from those beyond the emanation, and it describes unleashing energy from Patron, and different effects from different Patrons but include visual ques to me says the it shouldn't have the subtle trait. Beyond that you have this basic reflex save...reflex doesn't seem to be the appropriate kind of save. Either will or fort would make more sense, you're not dodging out of the way of the emanation, you're resisting its effects. And basic save doesn't make sense because it deals no damage.

Currently you would make a saving throw to resist non-existant damage but always take the actual effect...which makes no sense.

Feel like this one got lost in editing.

[shroudb]

Unless it was added in an errata, Manifest doesn't have the Subtle trait in the actual book.

[Errenor]

Yeah, save we just ignore completely and use spell as written otherwise.
I have no problems with Subtle. Yes, anything non-mindless could suspect you are doing all these things which are very visible (but don't obviously look like a spell). But you could pretend it's happening to you, not of your doing. For some reason. And could even succeed (with a Lying check of course).

shroudb wrote:

Unless it was added in an errata, Manifest doesn't have the Subtle trait in the actual book.

Ah, this solves it then.