| YuriP |
No because you can never trigger it using your Eternal Blessing/Bane.
Your deeds have brought your deity’s grace to you for all of eternity. You’re continuously surrounded by a bless spell, with a spell rank equal to half your level (rounded up). The radius is 15 feet, and you can’t increase it. You can Dismiss the spell; if you do, it returns automatically after 1 minute.
Your life has made you a nexus for your deity’s vile power. You’re continuously surrounded by a bane spell, with a spell rank equal to half your level (rounded up). The radius is 15 feet, and you can’t increase it. You can Dismiss the spell; if you do, it returns automatically after 1 minute.
You critically hit and Sustain a battle aura.
Maybe someone could say that you can Sustain it without increase it but honestly this is just a try to exploit it. I don't think that it's valid.
| Errenor |
Absolutely no. Buffing permanent effects from +1 to +4 (-1 to -4) forever? I would totally forbid it even if rules against it couldn't be found.
As is though, spells from these feats (Eternal Blessing/Bane) aren't your 'battle auras' and as such the feat Empowered Onslaught doesn't work for them at all.
"Instead of preparing heal or harm spells with your divine font, you instead gain the battle font, which allows you to prepare battle aura spells. You gain 4 additional spell slots each day at your highest rank of cleric spell slots. You can prepare only bane or bless in these slots. Any feats and effects that refer to a battle aura refers to these spells, regardless of whether they were cast with your standard spell slots or your divine font spell slots."
Spells from Eternal Blessing/Bane aren't cast from any slots at all and so aren't battle auras.
P.S. It seems I omitted too much context from the quote above. I've now returned it for clarity.
| HenshinFanatic |
But Empowered Onslaught also states
Choose one active battle aura you have; that battle aura's status bonus or penalty increases by 1, to a maximum of 4. This value remains for the rest of the aura's duration.
Which indicates the triggering battle aura doesn't have to be the one empowered, and Bane and Bless are unquestionably always battle auras. Even if the Eternal ____ feats can't trigger it (and I have my doubts with how Bane has the effect of reforcing the save on any foe who is unaffected on its sustain and thus the reading that the Eternal version can't be sustained period seems too bad to be true)
| HenshinFanatic |
As is though, spells from these feats (Eternal Blessing/Bane) aren't your 'battle auras' and as such the feat Empowered Onslaught doesn't work for them at all.
"Any feats and effects that refer to a battle aura refers to these spells, regardless of whether they were cast with your standard spell slots or your divine font spell slots."
Spells from Eternal Blessing/Bane aren't cast from any slots at all and so aren't battle auras.
So battle auras cast from scrolls/staves/wands also wouldn't count according to that logic.
| Errenor |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So battle auras cast from scrolls/staves/wands also wouldn't count according to that logic.
Yes, absolutely, they aren't 'battle auras'. The intent is very clear, battle auras are spells from the divine font (battle font). Plus normal cleric slots. Nothing else.
But Empowered Onslaught also states
Empowered Onslaught wrote:Choose one active battle aura you have; that battle aura's status bonus or penalty increases by 1, to a maximum of 4. This value remains for the rest of the aura's duration.Which indicates the triggering battle aura doesn't have to be the one empowered, and Bane and Bless are unquestionably always battle auras. Even if the Eternal ____ feats can't trigger it (and I have my doubts with how Bane has the effect of reforcing the save on any foe who is unaffected on its sustain and thus the reading that the Eternal version can't be sustained period seems too bad to be true)
Firstly, no, Bane and Bless aren't always battle auras, see above.
Then, the feat also has:Trigger You critically hit and Sustain a battle aura.
So you must have some battle aura first. And then you can select another battle aura for increasing bonus, yes. But they must be battle auras both.
The possible problem with Eternal Bane is another issue entirely. Whatever the solution (enemies make a save when entering, or allowing Sustain without increasing the radius) Bane not from your cleric slots is not a battle aura.
And finally - you are badly rules lawyering now. I'm very resistant as probably all other people here and most GMs outside. But even the most inexperienced and gentle GM which still knows a bit of PF2 won't allow you to make an eternal bonus +1 into +4.
| Nelzy |
Firstly, no, Bane and Bless aren't always battle auras, see above.
........You can prepare only bane or bless in these slots. Any feats and effects that refer to a battle aura refers to these spells, regardless of whether they were cast with your standard spell slots or your divine font spell slots.
im afraid you are mistaken, they are always Battle auras for Battle Harbingers dont matter how they are cast.
but i agree that its a gray area when you cast a spell without spellslots or font
"regardless of whether they were cast with your standard spell slots or your divine font spell slots." dont have to be a exclusive list, its just an example and their intent for scrolls and staff could be there but as i said its a gray area.
Edit: but i do agree that having permanent +4 aura sounds tgtbt even at that level.
| yellowpete |
The mentioned list of sources that the battle aura must be cast from may or may not be meant to be exhaustive. But it must be cast at all to be considered a battle aura – the wording clearly makes that assumption.
The eternal blessing is never cast, it just appears. Even if you Dismiss it, it returns by itself without ever casting it (and you can't return it any other way).
| Errenor |
Errenor wrote:Firstly, no, Bane and Bless aren't always battle auras, see above.im afraid you are mistaken, they are always Battle auras for Battle Harbingers dont matter how they are cast.
but i agree that its a gray area when you cast a spell without spellslots or font
"regardless of whether they were cast with your standard spell slots or your divine font spell slots." dont have to be a exclusive list, its just an example and their intent for scrolls and staff could be there but as i said its a gray area.
I think doing this you take things out of the context. Full (almost) entry:
"Instead of preparing heal or harm spells with your divine font, you instead gain the battle font, which allows you to prepare battle aura spells. You gain 4 additional spell slots each day at your highest rank of cleric spell slots. You can prepare only bane or bless in these slots. Any feats and effects that refer to a battle aura refers to these spells, regardless of whether they were cast with your standard spell slots or your divine font spell slots."This whole paragraph is about your divine font only. Then normal slot spells added. And that's all. Nothing else. "These spells" are bane and bless from font slots about which there was the discourse above plus normal slots which added explicitly.
If they really were going to allow all sources they should've written exactly that: "refers to bane and bless spells, regardless of whether they were cast with your standard spell slots, your divine font spell slots, magic items or any other source" for example.
| Nelzy |
Nelzy wrote:Errenor wrote:Firstly, no, Bane and Bless aren't always battle auras, see above.im afraid you are mistaken, they are always Battle auras for Battle Harbingers dont matter how they are cast.
but i agree that its a gray area when you cast a spell without spellslots or font
"regardless of whether they were cast with your standard spell slots or your divine font spell slots." dont have to be a exclusive list, its just an example and their intent for scrolls and staff could be there but as i said its a gray area.I think doing this you take things out of the context. Full (almost) entry:
"Instead of preparing heal or harm spells with your divine font, you instead gain the battle font, which allows you to prepare battle aura spells. You gain 4 additional spell slots each day at your highest rank of cleric spell slots. You can prepare only bane or bless in these slots. Any feats and effects that refer to a battle aura refers to these spells, regardless of whether they were cast with your standard spell slots or your divine font spell slots."
This whole paragraph is about your divine font only. Then normal slot spells added. And that's all. Nothing else. "These spells" are bane and bless from font slots about which there was the discourse above plus normal slots which added explicitly.
If they really were going to allow all sources they should've written exactly that: "refers to bane and bless spells, regardless of whether they were cast with your standard spell slots, your divine font spell slots, magic items or any other source" for example.
I feel that the comma and word usage suggest more, since they could have used alot clearer words to express that only Battlefront and regular spellslots counted.
but you are right that its speculating on paisos intent, and pure RAW you are correct.
Example of shorter and more clear: "Any feats and effects that refer to a battle aura refers to these spells only when cast with your standard spell slots or your divine font spell slots."
and since paiso spends quite alot of effort minimizing word count(sometimes they have made thing unclear that way) in their books i feel that they intended something more.
| Errenor |
Well, you (and other guys here) could be right. Especially when a lot of heal/harm affecting feats work for all sources (apart from 'expend spell' and spellshapes I suppose). And frankly allowing scrolls and staves is not a big deal. Either is not allowing. But I'm just trying to read this chapter as a whole and as written and I think that's what it meant.
P.S. Also I meant "they should've written something like that" in the post above, not "exactly". Have no idea how I managed to type that.