So one of my character ideas makes use of the Lepidstadt Surgeon Archetype, which has access to the feat In Lightning, Life . On paper I have no real questions on how this feat works, but the fact that you can use it on unconscious characters led me to some questions I found no answers for, and I was hoping maybe someone here was more knowledgeable than me.
1) If I use in Lightning, Life on an Unconscious Ally, lets say someone who is Dying 1, does this count as regaining hit points, even though they're Temporary? Do they regain Consciousness, get rid of the Dying condition and get the Wounded condition?
2) Following 1, if it does work, they're now up and have, say 7 Temporary Hit Points. Due to twists of fate, the minute ends and the character hasn't been healed. They lose those Temporary Hit Points. Do they gain the Dying condition, or do they simply fall Unconscious? The rules state that falling to 0 hit points always gives you Dying 1 unless it was a nonlethal attack or effect, this paricular situation, weird as it is, is technically neither of those.
As a GM I'd be inclined to rule that yes, applying temporary hit points to a character revives them as if they were non temporary hit points. If by some miracle they then lose those because they expire, they should fall unconscious. But I am curious if there's rules text somewhere I'm missing, or this is one of the corner cases where it's down to GM fiat.
Sorry if anyone read my first rambling. (Removed it in edit)
after discussing it with my friends we found this.
Have a specific override on its Temporary Hit points, so unless normal temporary hit point dont wake you up, this text would be pointless.
but that also makes "In Lightning, Life" use on uncontious pointless you might say.
but thats not 100% true since you can be unconscious without having 0hp or dying
I see temporary HP and your normal Hit Points as being separate things.
Mostly because that is how temporary Hit Points are defined...
Some spells or abilities give you temporary Hit Points. Track these separately from your current and maximum Hit Points;
as separate from your regular HP.
So when the Getting Knocked Out rules mentions Hit Points:
As a player character, when you're reduced to 0 Hit Points, you're knocked out with the following effects:
They mean Hit Points. Not temporary Hit Points, which are separate.
Similarly, when the Dying condition mentions Hit Points:
You lose the dying condition automatically and wake up if you ever have 1 Hit Point or more.
It means Hit Points. Not Temporary Hit Points, which are separate.
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In Lightning, Life is still useful if it is ruled that losing temporary HP does not qualify for 'taking damage' for the Dying condition and so doesn't cause the Dying condition to increase.
Which could be useful for things like Risky Surgery, or Dying with Persistent Damage.
Also, In Lightning, Life can be used on willing allies to gain the Temp HP before they drop.
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So yes. I can see that this is unclear and the table should rule consistently one way or the other:
* Temp HP does count as normal HP for the purposes of Dying and characters can be conscious and active while at 0 HP as long as they have Temp HP. There is still the question of how to handle losing those Temp HP when they expire.
* Temp HP does not count as normal HP for the purposes of Dying and characters with Temp HP that have lost all of their normal HP are still unconscious and Dying, but losing the Temp HP does not cause their Dying value to increase.
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Have a specific override on its Temporary Hit points, so unless normal temporary hit point dont wake you up, this text would be pointless.
Hmmm... a 'specific defines general' argument.
The specific rules text being referenced is:
You grant a single target you touch a number of temporary Hit Points equal to twice your level that last for 24 hours. If the target was unconscious, it regains consciousness and doesn't lose consciousness again due to Hit Point loss as long as it has temporary Hit Points from this effect remaining.
Now. If you are assuming that the general rule is:
Temp HP does count as normal HP for the purposes of Dying and characters can be conscious and active while at 0 HP as long as they have Temp HP. There is still the question of how to handle losing those Temp HP when they expire.
Then the rule in Razmiri Mask is reminder text or superfluous. All Temp HP works that way. The Razmiri Mask is just repeating that general rule because it provides a lot of Temp HP for a long time - enough that one hit isn't going to burn through all of the Temp HP that the character has.
And if you are assuming that the general rule is:
Temp HP does not count as normal HP for the purposes of Dying and characters with Temp HP that have lost all of their normal HP are still unconscious and Dying, but losing the Temp HP does not cause their Dying value to increase.
Then the rule in Razmiri Mask is a specific override of that general rule.
So as much as I would intuitively agree that gaining Temp HP while at 0 HP does not remove the Dying or Unconscious conditions, that is because of my own preferences and is mostly confirmation bias. A specific rule is not proof of a general rule - one way or the other.