I have a few questions regarding the familiar ability Spellcasting:
Choose a spell in your repertoire or that you prepared today at least 5 ranks lower than your highest-rank spell slot. Your familiar can Cast that Spell once per day using your magical tradition, spell attack modifier, and spell DC. If the spell has a drawback that affects the caster, both you and your familiar are affected. You must be able to cast 6th-rank spells using spell slots to select this.
First, when it says the "familiar can Cast that Spell", it's not using my spell slot for that casting, is it? How I understand it is it gains its own use of that spell once per day.
Second, does my familiar need the Speech familiar ability before my it can use this Spellcasting ability since casting spells generally require speaking? Similarly, would it need the Manual Dexterity ability to cast spells with the manipulate trait?
I don't think it ends up duplicating the spell slot so that both the familiar and the spellcaster can cast the spell at separate times. The wording on that isn't fully clear though, so other GMs may rule differently.
The way that I run it is that the spellcaster effectively donates the spell slot to the familiar to cast. The spellcaster can no longer cast the spell from that spell slot. When the familiar casts the spell, then the spell slot is exhausted as normal.
No, the familiar does not need any other abilities in order to cast the spell. If it did, they should be listed as prerequisites for selecting the ability. So the specific rule of the Spellcasting ability saying, "Your familiar can Cast that Spell" overrides the general rule saying that spellcasters need to be able to speak in order to cast spells.
Hello, GM that rules differently here.
I don't think that you or the familiar share spellslots from how its worded, But I agree the wording is a bit unclear.
I'm even able to come up with additional possible rulings that meet the letter of the rule.
1) The spell slot control is transferred entirely to the familiar and the familiar is the only one that can cast that spell.
2) The familiar gets its own copy of a spell slot that the spellcaster has prepared that is completely separate from the spellcaster's spell slots.
3) The familiar gets access to the spell slot and either the familiar or the spellcaster can cast the spell, but once it is cast the spell slot is exhausted as normal.
I'm not seeing any logical or lexical reasoning that disproves any of these three potential rulings. There is no rule wording saying that the spell slot is shared or transferred. There is also no wording saying that the spell slot is duplicated. There is also no wording saying that the spellcaster can't still cast the spell from that spell slot that they have prepared.
To me it seems like its an improvement to Spell Battery. Where you gain another spellslot 3 ranks lower than your highest.
The other one I see it being compared to is Quicken Spell: 1/day cast a spell 2 Ranks lower than your max for 1 fewer action.
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Yeah, It's Quicken spell + Spell Battery the way I see it.
The once per day to me is primarily why I believe its an additional spell.
As far as a balance argument: Quickened Casting is also 1/day. And it is a level 10 feat, not half of a level 1 feat.
The way that I run it is that the spellcaster effectively donates the spell slot to the familiar to cast. The spellcaster can no longer cast the spell from that spell slot. When the familiar casts the spell, then the spell slot is exhausted as normal.
Okay, I think I see where my doubts are coming from. This reading tracks well with me but only for choosing a spell "that you prepared today". However, if I chose a spell "from my repertoire", I think it makes less sense to me. I can see donating a spell you prepared in a spell slot to your familiar but donating a spell from your repertoire doesn't sound like a spell slot is involved, just access.
Does it maybe work differently for prepared and spontaneous casters then?
No, the familiar does not need any other abilities in order to cast the spell. If it did, they should be listed as prerequisites for selecting the ability. So the specific rule of the Spellcasting ability saying, "Your familiar can Cast that Spell" overrides the general rule saying that spellcasters need to be able to speak in order to cast spells.
Thanks for the clarification on the other abilities. Specific overrides general makes sense, and I forgot about abilities specifically listing prerequisites like that. There are actually a handful of those and coincidentally Manual Dexterity is a prereq for multiple!
Does it maybe work differently for prepared and spontaneous casters then?
I'm still thinking that casting a spell slot spell is going to consume a spell slot. No matter if the familiar is doing it or the spellcaster.
If the ability is adding spell slot count to the overall daily usage of the character, then it really should be mentioning that. Like Spell Battery does.
But ultimately, for balance arguments like this, the only real authority you need to listen to is your GM.
NorrKnekten and I could probably argue back and forth for days about what the 'right' balance considerations to use are and how much importance to give to each of them.
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But its nice to have a friendly discussion like this where we arent too bothered with trying to convince the other as opposed to just offer different perspectives.
It is. In general that is how I approach these rules discussions. You and I are like lawyers arguing our various perspectives to the best of our ability. yarrchives, their GM, and anyone else reading through this is the jury - though only for their own table.
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I would say if the ability doesn't explicitly say the spell slot is consumed it doesn't consume one.
I would say if the ability doesn't explicitly say the spell slot is consumed it doesn't consume one.
Specific Overrides General. But if the specific rule doesn't override the general rule, then the rule still applies. So I would say that the general rules for Casting Spells still apply. Casting a spell slot spell consumes a spell slot.
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I would say if the ability doesn't explicitly say the spell slot is consumed it doesn't consume one.Specific Overrides General. But if the specific rule doesn't override the general rule, then the rule still applies. So I would say that the general rules for Casting Spells still apply. Casting a spell slot spell consumes a spell slot.
Well if you go back to the chassis entries that give the cast a spell activity to classes that have it they explicitly tell you you use slots when you cast spells. meaning there is no general rule for spell casting, there are classes that are given slots and spells along with the cast a spell activity and tell you what happens when you cast one.
A familiar doesn't have a spellcasting ability on its own, its just this ability saying do this thing and it doesn't also say to use any slots to do it.
I agree that the wording is very strongly in the "does NOT burn a slot" camp.
The ability including the usage limitation of once per day very strongly implies that once per day is the only usage limitation, and there isn't a second limitation of burning slots.
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What'll really drive you crazy is trying to figure out if it's legal to take the same f.ability multiple times. As in, take 2 or 3 copies of Spellcasting to get multiple familiar spells. Redundant effects not stacking makes this useless for most of them, but not the once per day types.
I could not find any reason to ban it the last time this came up.