Is the bottle of the bound just a really poor way to cast summon monster IX once a day?

[Maniacwyrm]

Reason for my confusion is because of the following part of the item description:
A holder who knows the words may use the bottle like a summon monster IX spell at will, except only creatures of the evil subtype can be summoned. The summoned creatures remain until the sun next rises or sets, and no new creatures can be summoned from the bottle until the initial summoned creatures are destroyed or return.

To me this basically means you can just cast the spell once and until that creature dies or you return it to the bottle you can’t cast it again. And this is after you go through the effort of learning all three words.

Interestingly if you just say the word of opening, the bottle automatically summon all 666 fiends including the harbringer fiend after 11 hours. Which brings up a whole new set of questions. Like if you did know all 3 words, could you just say the first word to set free the entire army and then say the other two words immediately to bind them to your service? Because presumably you speaking the word of banishment and binding immediately banishes the fiends or binds them since at one point the entire army was commanded to build a city.

How would you rule it too work?(I didnt Put it under rules since it’s an artifact and the part I was confused about seems open to interpretation rather than strict RAW)

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

1. Yes, I do interpret it as you can only have one controlled creature at a time. This is fine, it's an artifact, it doesn't have to be optimized, especially considering its history as a desperate measure of containment.

2. I would not allow you to let the fiends come out uncontrolled and Bind them retroactively. I would rule it as you need to use the Word of Binding as you let the fiend out and if you don't it's free to do what it wants.

I can't see anywhere in the description of the item that it was used to create a city so I don't know that I would allow it to loose all fiends and rebind them. I would however allow the bottle to loose fiends without the Word of Binding and you can Seal it later but that would permanently reduce the number of capture fiends. IOW, if you use the WoBinding the fiends are Summoned so if killed they return to the bottle to be resummoned. If let loose unBound they are free and die when they are killed. Banishment only works if the fiend is Bound.

[Pizza Lord]

Botttle of the Bound

I agree with Bjørn Røyrvik (though I do see the mention of building city, both in D20pfsrd and Archives of Nethys). It bottle uses words like 'freed' and 'escape' when opened without the Word Binding, so I don't consider them to be 'called' or 'summoned'. So once you do it, if you didn't use the Word of Binding, then instead of summoning like the summon monster IX spell, you get one every minute until they're all out after 11 hours and the big one comes out.

And if you summoned one without also using the Word of Banishment, then at the end they are released (if they finished the task you gave them). Presumably if it got to sunrise or sunset, they'd probably go back in if they didn't complete it. So... theoretically there might be less than 666 fiends in the bottle, depending on what's happened in the past or other users (or none if they only had the Word of Opening, but this discussion would be moot).

The only thing I would point out is that it isn't just a single creature, since it's like summon monster IX which you could use to call multiple monsters (within the parameters, ie. evil, etc.), such as from the summon monster VII or lower lists. In that case, you'd have to wait until all the ones you summoned are destroyed or returned to the bottle before you could do it again.

Bottle of the Bound wrote:

A holder who knows the words may use the bottle like a summon monster IX spell at will, except only creatures of the evil subtype can be summoned. The summoned creatures remain until the sun next rises or sets, and no new creatures can be summoned from the bottle until the initial summoned creatures’ destruction or return.

This would imply that you can get more than one, otherwise it would say 'the summoned creature', but yes, still one one effective spell at a time, whether you only tried to summon one, or tried for more and got a low roll for amount.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Bottle of the Bound allows you to use Summon Monster IX. The description of Summon Monter IX states you can use it to summon 1 monster from the level 9 list, 1d3 Monsters from the level 8 list, or 1d4+1 from a lower level list. The spell already allows you the option of summoning multiple lower tier creatures.

[Diego Rossi]

"Poor way to cast Summon Monster IX once a day"?

I don't see what makes it a "poor way".

1) Summon Monster lasts 1 round/level. The bottle effect lasts hours. You get way more out of each single summoning than from the spell.

2) "The summoned creatures remain until the sun next rises or sets, and no new creatures can be summoned from the bottle until the initial summoned creatures’ destruction or return."
The bottles can summon a new creature:
a) after the sun sets and the previously summoned creature returns;
b) after the sun rises and the previously summoned creature returns;
c) after the previously summoned creature is destroyed.

So, as a minimum, the Bottle owner can cast Summon Monster IX twice a day.
If the summoned creature is destroyed, he can use the bottle multiple times, up to 666 times in little more than one hour, if the fiends are destroyed immediately after leaving the bottle (the limit of 1 summoned creature or group of creatures each minute applies if the bottle is left open, not if the bottle is used repeatedly).

[glass]

Diego Rossi wrote:

2) "The summoned creatures remain until the sun next rises or sets, and no new creatures can be summoned from the bottle until the initial summoned creatures’ destruction or return."

The bottles can summon a new creature:
a) after the sun sets and the previously summoned creature returns;
b) after the sun rises and the previously summoned creature returns;
c) after the previously summoned creature is destroyed.

Presumably also if the summoning is dispelled (by the bottle user or someone else).

Also maybe if it is dismissed, although it is not clear to me if summon monster's normal dismissibility is overridden or not.

[Valandil Ancalime]

This could make an interesting adventure. An npc party gets a hold of the bottle but only have the word of opening and don't know what will happen when they use it. Now your city is being invaded by evil outsiders that are getting progressively more powerful.

[zza ni]

Valandil Ancalime wrote:

This could make an interesting adventure. An npc party gets a hold of the bottle but only have the word of opening and don't know what will happen when they use it. Now your city is being invaded by evil outsiders that are getting progressively more powerful.

As a GM (just to mess with the players) I would add that the long imprisonment in the bottle somewhat effected the resident's mind, now they all dress the same, look the same and answer to the name 'Bob' ,yes even the big guy at the end.

(one way to calm this problem is to research each and every fiend true name to send them off with it)