Quote:
Implanting a graft is a downtime activity, using the same rules as Crafting an item except as follows. The grafter uses the Medicine skill to affix the foreign organ to the willing subject, who must be present throughout the process. The grafter can implant only one graft at a time. Once the grafting process is complete, the implanted subject can begin using the graft. Grafts can be created from scratch, though they typically require specialized storage conditions, such as a tank of alchemical fluid, to remain viable outside of a host.
Grafts all have the 'graft' trait, which enforces 'invested' and thus 'magical'.
(1) Does this mean that "Magical Crafting" is mandatory to implant grafts, even if one has Graft Technician (which does not specify a Crafting prof. or Magical Crafting feat prerequisite)?
(2) Nothing in the "Implanting a graft" section seems to actually make the "Graft Technician" feat mandatory. If one manages to acquire formula for grafts *without* taking Graft Technician, and has the presumably mandatory "Magical Crafting" feat, can one then implant it, just using Medicine skill without the circumstance bonus that the Graft Technician feat would provide (and using Medicine instead of Crafting for not just the checks, but eligibility based on TEML proficiency vs. item level)?
References -
Implanting a Graft - https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=3277
Graft trait - https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=790
Crafting - https://2e.aonprd.com/Skills.aspx?ID=37
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=3275
That's the relevant section on Grafts:
"To implant a graft, you must be an expert in Medicine and have the appropriate formula"
And
"Implanting a graft is a downtime activity, using the same rules as Crafting an item except as follows. The grafter uses the Medicine skill to affix the foreign organ to the willing subject,"
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RAW, you can indeed"make them" with Craft magic item, but you'd still need medicine instead of Craft to Implant them.
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Conscious Meat wrote: Grafts all have the 'graft' trait, which enforces 'invested' and thus 'magical'. That chain of traits is tenuous.
The Graft trait does say that it includes the Invested trait.
Graft wrote: Each graft has the invested trait to indicate this... But the Invested trait only mentions magical items in passing.
Invested wrote: A character can invest only 10 magical items that have the invested trait. None of the magical effects of the item apply if the character hasn’t invested it... The Invested trait isn't requiring or including the Magical trait.
The Invested trait was written when all items with the Invested trait were magical, and with the (flawed) assumption that all items created in the future would also be magical.
Very similar to the old "Sustain a Spell" action. It was written at a time when everything that could be sustained was a spell. And had to be rewritten and renamed when sustained stances and Impulses were created.
For what it's worth, every Graft item published in "Howl of the Wild" does also explicitly have the "Magical" trait as far as I can tell. It may not be strictly required (Graft -> Magical), but it seems to be intended practice at least as of the current PDF.
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I think graft technician being allowed to function without magical crafter is probably the intention, It would be akin to Tattoo artist which says "You can craft tattoos, including magical tattoos."
NorrKnekten wrote: I think graft technician being allowed to function without magical crafter is probably the intention, It would be akin to Tattoo artist which says "You can craft tattoos, including magical tattoos." It's not only the intention, it's also the RAW: graft technicial specifically allows one to craft Grafts.
The OPs question I feel was the other way around: "can you use Craft magic item instead to make them like the rest of magical items?"
To which I think the answer is still "yes, you can", but you cannot actually implant them to someone without the graft technicial feat.
I didn't find anything that explicitly allowed it to bypass the need for the separate Magical Crafting feat where it mentioned that the normal Crafting rules for the most part applied as-is, which seemed... odd. It seemed suggested but not explicitly codified, to my reading.
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Conscious Meat wrote: I didn't find anything that explicitly allowed it to bypass the need for the separate Magical Crafting feat where it mentioned that the normal Crafting rules for the most part applied as-is, which seemed... odd. It seemed suggested but not explicitly codified, to my reading.
Graft technician:
" You can create and implant grafts. When you select this feat, you gain the formulas for four common grafts of 3rd level or lower. You gain a +1 circumstance bonus to Medicine checks to implant grafts. If you’re a master in Medicine, this bonus increases to +2."
The very first sentence of the feat tells you you can create them, so you can.
It's a typical case of specific>generic, where generic tells you you need Magical crafter to craft magical items, and Graft Technician specifically telling you that with this feat you can craft Grafts.
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Conscious Meat wrote: For what it's worth, every Graft item published in "Howl of the Wild" does also explicitly have the "Magical" trait as far as I can tell. Yes, any Grafts that also themselves have the Magical trait would be magical.
I do agree with shroudb. Graft Technician is overriding the standard Crafting rules that require the Magical Crafting feat to craft Magic items. It effectively becomes a lite version of Magical Crafting that you can take instead. It gives both the ability to craft the Grafts and gives a bonus to the skill check to implant them. It wouldn't give the ability to craft any other Magical items.
shroudb wrote: you cannot actually implant them to someone without the graft technicial feat. I'll disagree with that one. Graft Technician only gives a bonus on the check to Implant. A character with Magical Crafting could create the Grafts and Implant them using the general Graft Implanting rules, but without the bonus on the check.
Finoan wrote: Conscious Meat wrote: For what it's worth, every Graft item published in "Howl of the Wild" does also explicitly have the "Magical" trait as far as I can tell. Yes, any Grafts that also themselves have the Magical trait would be magical.
I do agree with shroudb. Graft Technician is overriding the standard Crafting rules that require the Magical Crafting feat to craft Magic items. It effectively becomes a lite version of Magical Crafting that you can take instead. It gives both the ability to craft the Grafts and gives a bonus to the skill check to implant them. It wouldn't give the ability to craft any other Magical items.
shroudb wrote: you cannot actually implant them to someone without the graft technicial feat. I'll disagree with that one. Graft Technician only gives a bonus on the check to Implant. A character with Magical Crafting could create the Grafts and Implant them using the general Graft Implanting rules, but without the bonus on the check. You'd still require Medicine for it is what I meant to say, and not Craft to Implant, but yes.
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