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I have an Antipaladin Tyrant 20/Mythic 6 character who has the Leadership feat. His cohort is an Ukobach devil (5 HD) Expert 13. He's essentially a smith who runs the Antipaladin's forge and does not go adventuring.
This Antipaladin has just taken the Crusader Mythic Ability which essentially allows him a second cohort.
My question is, what should this cohort be?
I'm thinking either some sort of cleric or a mage-type.
I like the thematic idea of a Cleric of Asmodeus cohort (the AntiPaladin is also a worshiper of Asmodeus), but since the Antipaladin is already somewhat of a divine caster, an Arcane cohort might provide better versatility.
To give you an idea of the kinds of adventures the AntiPaladin has had and will likely have in the future, he lives in Cheliax, is the lictor of his own Hellknight order in Westcrown and hates undead. In one of his most recent adventures, he and another Antipaladin associate permanently destroyed the three graveknights in the old Citadel Gheisteno between Nidal and Cheliax.
I can see he *might* at some future point "interact" with Tar Baphon in the future.
I can also make a good case for why an 18th level Wizard, Sorc, Magus or even Arcanist might be a good choice for a cohort.
Maybe someone else might make a good cohort for my AntiPaladin?
Any thoughts on who/what that cohort would ideally be would be appreciated.
I'm not a very big fan of multiclassing, but a prestige class isn't off the table in my mind.
FYI, I have put a lot of thought into making an 18th level Bladebound Kensai Magus, but I would like to hear what others might think. Yes, a melee partner is certainly attractive, but not absolutely necessary. And, again, another divine-type (cleric, warpriest, oracle, etc) is not out of the question.
Thanks!
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I had a Vellemancer Witch cohort in Kingmaker for the Invested Hex ability, granting the party access to more spells, and watching over the coven of followers while we were away. She also had a level of Loremaster to expand the range of spells she could supply.
One thing that kept coming up for my character was going to and from the coven, so a cohort with reliable teleport method can bring their spells to you (or any gear from the forge).
I would verify with your GM that you actually get a second cohort. Crusader specifies you gain double the number of followers but makes no mention of extra cohorts.
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I had a Vellemancer Witch cohort in Kingmaker for the Invested Hex ability, granting the party access to more spells, and watching over the coven of followers while we were away. She also had a level of Loremaster to expand the range of spells she could supply.
One thing that kept coming up for my character was going to and from the coven, so a cohort with reliable teleport method can bring their spells to you (or any gear from the forge).
Yeah, a teleporter is something I’m really considering. Any of the normal arcane classes I mentioned in my OP would certainly fit the bill.
But one of the Antipaladin’s biggest weaknesses is lack of self-healing, especially during combat.
That is why this is a really tough choice!
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I would verify with your GM that you actually get a second cohort. Crusader specifies you gain double the number of followers but makes no mention of extra cohorts.I see your point, but It would seem odd that a Mythic ability would give you fewer followers than a common feat, yes?
'Follower' and 'Cohort' are two distinct categories: Crusader grants more 'followers' than Leadership does (as you add your mythic rank to your leadership score) and grants them a free surge usage, but does not give you a 'cohort' or even boost any cohort you might already have.
Crusader (Ex) (Mythic Adventures pg. 21):Your prowess and ability draw countless followers to your banner. You gain followers as if you had the Leadership feat. In addition, you add your tier to your leadership score when determining the number of followers you gain. Whenever you are within 100 feet of such followers, each follower can use the surge ability once per day without needing to expend mythic power. The followers use the same die type as your surge ability. If you have or gain the Leadership feat, you gain followers from both this ability and the Leadership feat (in effect doubling the number of followers gained).
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Crusader grants more 'followers' than Leadership does (as you add your mythic rank to your leadership score) and grants them a free surge usage, but does not give you a 'cohort' or even boost any cohort you might already have.
If your Leadership score is 25 or higher (not at all hard to get even in non-Mythic games), you get no more followers. It doesn't matter what your Mythic Tier is, you cannot exceed a 25.
Therefore, Crusader doesn't get you any more followers. In fact, it gets you one fewer "follower" in the generic sense. A cohort is just a specialized, higher-level follower. And if you don't get another cohort from Crusader, you get one fewer follower than you get from the Leadership feat.
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Is there a specific rule against a cohort taking a cohort? I know they made Cavaliers that make second and third cohorts who report directly to you, but that itself doesn't seem to override a chain of cohorts.
I don't know of a written rule or errata that would bar the Chain of Cohorts concept specifically, but as a GM, I'd rule against it.
The Chain of Cohorts sure seems like a way to abuse the limited number of cohorts that appear to be in the actual rules now.
It gives you more follower earlier and adding your tier can help offset penalties to your leadership score. Not all characters have high CHA and can buffer poor treatment of your follower. Crusader may not gain the high-level paladin more followers, but it probably will help the evil inquisitor that dumped CHA because his inquisition allows him to use WIS for social skills. Also, if you have both crusader and leadership, you do get a lot more followers.
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Crusader grants more 'followers' than Leadership does (as you add your mythic rank to your leadership score) and grants them a free surge usage, but does not give you a 'cohort' or even boost any cohort you might already have.
If your Leadership score is 25 or higher (not at all hard to get even in non-Mythic games), you get no more followers. It doesn't matter what your Mythic Tier is, you cannot exceed a 25.
Therefore, Crusader doesn't get you any more followers. In fact, it gets you one fewer "follower" in the generic sense. A cohort is just a specialized, higher-level follower. And if you don't get another cohort from Crusader, you get one fewer follower than you get from the Leadership feat.
Perhaps not for a 20th level character like yours, but it will provide more followers (at least for a while) for anyone who takes it at lower levels: It is a '1st tier' power, so you could take it while still in your single digits if getting mythic ranks like Wrath of the Righteous gave them out.
Admittedly, it sounds like your campaign might be using mythic ranks as a post-20 leveling system, which would probably limit this particular power's utility.|
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No offense folks, but you turned my question about what kind of cohort would go best with an Anti-Paladin into a rules discussion.
For the sake of trying to steer this discussion back on track, let's say my Anti-Paladin doesn't have the Crusader ability and picked up the Leadership feat at 19th level and hasn't gotten his cohort yet.
If I could edit the title of this thread and also edit the OP, I would. But I can't.
Standard bearer cavalier 1/ bard X, with flagbearer and a longspear. Add banner of the ancient kings, gloves of arcane striking and bodygaurd if desired. Instant PR boost for your order, plus make them followers worth a chunk more.
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An Appeaser cleric gives a cohort that follows Asmodeus, but can still can channel positive energy at -4 levels.
Thanks for the suggestions.
An Appeaser Cleric is interesting, but unfortunately, an Asmodeus worshiper doesn't normally get access to the Travel domain.
As mentioned above in another post, I'd like to get a cohort that can cast the Teleport spells.
Do you know of a way a cleric of Asmodeus could possibly get access to the Travel domain despite the fact that Travel isn't one of Asmodeus' domains?
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Do you know of a way a cleric of Asmodeus could possibly get access to the Travel domain despite the fact that Travel isn't one of Asmodeus' domains?
Separatist archetype.
You could also be a Divine Source yourself (a mythic path ability I absolutely love) if your GM will let you rearrange your mythic choices. You'd have to take it twice, since the first time would only allow you to grant the Evil and Law domains.
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Do you know of a way a cleric of Asmodeus could possibly get access to the Travel domain despite the fact that Travel isn't one of Asmodeus' domains?Separatist archetype.
This is frickin' brilliant!
I can just imagine the roleplay possibilities with a Separatist cleric as his cohort.
Awesome.
Could make it a cleric of Barbatos instead. Has Travel domain (and portals), and clerics of archdevils will generally be friendly with Asmodeus worshippers.
This is another interesting idea. Let me cogitate on this one, too.
Thanks!
If your Leadership score is 25 or higher (not at all hard to get even in non-Mythic games), you get no more followers. It doesn't matter what your Mythic Tier is, you cannot exceed a 25.
Therefore, Crusader doesn't get you any more followers. In fact, it gets you one fewer "follower" in the generic sense. A cohort is just a specialized, higher-level follower. And if you don't get another cohort from Crusader, you get one fewer follower than you get from the Leadership feat.
I know you're not as focused on the number of cohorts, but I wanted to point out that if you use the High Leadership Scores and Followers rule from Ultimate Intrigue having a Leadership score beyond 25 is both possible and desirable.
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I know you're not as focused on the number of cohorts, but I wanted to point out that if you use the High Leadership Scores and Followers rule from Ultimate Intrigue having a Leadership score beyond 25 is both possible and desirable.If your Leadership score is 25 or higher (not at all hard to get even in non-Mythic games), you get no more followers. It doesn't matter what your Mythic Tier is, you cannot exceed a 25.
Therefore, Crusader doesn't get you any more followers. In fact, it gets you one fewer "follower" in the generic sense. A cohort is just a specialized, higher-level follower. And if you don't get another cohort from Crusader, you get one fewer follower than you get from the Leadership feat.
Interesting. I was not aware of that in Ultimate Intrigue. That's a book I have, but haven't used much of it.
Thanks, I'll take a look.
There are no changes to cohort levels (cohorts no higher than two levels below the character with the Leadership feat), are there?
There are no changes to cohort levels (cohorts no higher than two levels below the character with the Leadership feat), are there?
There are not (that I'm aware of). Worse, I don't think any of those Ultimate Intrigue rules would help your character, specifically, get a cohort higher than 17th level--since Leadership only allows you to attract a cohort of up to this level and you're already past 19th level.
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There are no changes to cohort levels (cohorts no higher than two levels below the character with the Leadership feat), are there?There are not (that I'm aware of). Worse, I don't think any of those Ultimate Intrigue rules would help your character, specifically, get a cohort higher than 17th level--since Leadership only allows you to attract a cohort of up to this level and you're already past 19th level.
We play that the 17th level limit in the table is a misprint as the text below it says the Cohort max level is two below the PC.
Therefore the max level of a cohort is 18th.
If the cohort levels with you, the following scenario makes no sense:
Lets say your 18th level and your cohort is 16th level.
You level up to 19th and your cohort levels to 17th.
Then you level to 20th. Is Paizo trying to tell us the PC got enough experience to level up from 19th to 20th and the cohort can't level up to 18th? That's just plain silly.
Obviously there's justification to stop leveling the cohort to 19th and then 20th because the TEXT says their max level is two below the PC's level, so 18th.
Our rule is the TEXT takes precedence over a TABLE.