| Username22221 |
So I have the shadow subdomain on my cleric and I was wondering on how exactly the Whispering Shadows ability worked.
Whispering Shadows (Su): You can darken the shadows around you and cause them to hiss, confounding and distracting your enemies. As an immediate action, you can force a target within 30 feet to reroll a miss chance due to concealment or a saving throw against an illusion or necromancy spell. The target of this ability must keep the result of the second roll, even if it is worse than the original roll. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
So say I cast bestow curse on an enemy and they roll their saving throw how does the reroll work? Do I get told what their saving throw was and then I can have them reroll it if they pass? Do I just have to guess if they passed or failed and use the other reroll?
| Pizza Lord |
If it isn't written in the ability (or somewhere in that section), then it's probably safe that the GM can tell you (the player) that they made the save or possibly just what the result was, which is usually a fair determination since most miss chances are 20% or 50% or you can guess if an 8 or a 19 on a save is high enough.
This is usually for cases where they don't want the character, rather than the player, acting like they know a creature passed a save without having an ability to know (ie. a targeted spell with no visible effects usually alerts the caster.), but in the case of a creature swinging at you in the darkness or shadows, maybe the creature has an ability that reduces the percentage miss chance and your PC has no way to know that (maybe they have darkvision and don't require a roll). In that case they can say "45%" and you can try and guess "Well, it's a 50% miss chance in the dark... but what if he has low-light and to him I'm only in the shadows." and you have to guess whether he missed and you can save the use, or call for a reroll just in case.
There are many similar abilities that will state whether they must be used before a roll is made, after a roll is made but before seeing/learning the results (in which case the GM should tell you the die result or some will roll in front of you) and you just have to see the number and guess whether it is high or low enough, not knowing their actual save bonus that will be added).
Since this doesn't say, it's logical to conclude that you can use it after hearing the result (or seeing the result, ie. the creature hits you in darkness). That means you will probably have to pay attention and call out, because not every GM is going to remember you have it, and certainly will be annoyed if you act like they should be keeping track of your abilities and uses and require them to constantly have to ask after every (applicable) roll if you're going to use it (they certainly can, if they remember and think you forgot or it's really important to save your or the party, but they don't have to).
Your character does have to know (or reasonably guess) when the creature is rolling, this is easy if you're standing in shadows and darkness and they attack you, or you're the one casting an illusion or necromancy spell on them, but otherwise how can you know if they even rolled or whether they're seeing or interacting with an illusion or necromancy effect in an area.
----------------------------------------------------
Just be polite but assertive in such scenes and say, "I have the Whispered Shadows ability that lets me force a reroll on concealment miss chances and some saving throws," early on, and call out, "Can I force a reroll on that?" when you think it would work and do it before the GM starts going into the results of the die roll or gets more than three sentences in.
| Azothath |
Darkness Domain [not PFS legal]Shadow subdomain
RAW is a mix of descriptive text and mechanics. Not PFS legal means it probably is not clear on rules or has rule/game balance issues.
essentially the mechanics of Whispering Shadows are; you expend an immediate action. Then foe target within 30 ft rerolls a miss chance from [concealment] if hit or missed, or a save vs Ill or Necro spell/Sp if made or failed. uses [3+Wis bonus]/d.
As an immediate it is assumed to happen right after the save is rolled that you want to target. Don't wait until the next round. An Immediate consumes your Swift action on your turn or next turn. If you do it when it is not your turn (highly likely) it consumes your next swift action which also means only once per off turn.
I think it is meant to be used on successful saves by your foes and your GM may impose that as it is not unreasonable. Again, no time limit but with forced rerolls they are expected to happen immediately.
It's not a curse, luck, fate, or whatever.
Starting a round with your swift action you could cast bestow curse:N3 on a foe and if they make the save (which you know) make them roll again (using your swift & 1 use). Technically after your turn you could attempt to make them reroll again (using your next swift and 1 use) but most GMs are going to cry FOUL/throw a Red Card or let you consume your swift and use and then do nothing.
Table Etiquette: in PFS Shadow subdomain is not legal. Otherwise you need to let your GM know you can force a reroll before the game starts as it is going to be a dramatic monkey wrench. In home play you and your GM should have discussed how this works.