I’ve had a lengthy discussion with my friends about Stifling Stillness, and while we’ve come up with our own ruling, I think it would still be healthy to have something official.
“breathe air and aren't holding their breath must spend a single action on their turn straining to breathe”
So is holding your breath an action? If it’s cast on top of you, do you get a free action beforehand to hold your breath? Do you suffocate if you don’t/can’t spend an action to breathe and aren’t holding your breath? Do you have to take the action to breathe at the start of your turn, or just sometime in it as long as you’re in it? Do you just suffocate if you cast a spell in it?
For all sorts of different ways to see breathing handled…
See spells like: Vacuum, Air Bubble, Toxic Cloud
Effects like: Inhaled, Swallow Whole, being submerged
You can also point to Behold the Weave for action debt, and Avert Your Gaze for preventing a similar sense (and can you just choose to be blind instead?)
Generally speaking, breathing isn't an action. It's a thing you do naturally as part of being alive and under normal circumstances requires no thought or effort.
Nothing in the rules that I've seen defines holding your breath as an action, but it'd probably be a reasonable interpretation to call it a free action: it requires you to actively do it but doesn't take up any real time.
I don't think the part about when you start holding your breath in response to something happening is defined in the rules, so that becomes an interpretation thing. Generally speaking at my table, someone can declare they're holding their breath at any time and I just go "ok". So if they get submerged, they are now holding their breath and don't immediately start drowning (because the alternative there is pretty rough).
I generally use the same ruling for other such cases for consistency, because I like consistency and don't want a bunch of exceptions, since its often the same problem: if you can't hold your breath immediately upon Swallow Whole happening, do you start the suffocation rules and go unconscious immediately with no chance of escape? That's really not a fun ruling for players.
The wrinkle in this case is that how does the character know this spell has been cast on the air around them without something like Recognize Spell? They can recognize something changed based on the description, but how do they know the air is dangerous until they breathe? So for this spell I might not let the target hold their breath unless the target has some way to know immediately that they need to start holding their breath.
Nothing in the rules that I've seen defines holding your breath as an action
The Inhaled trait lists deciding to hold your breath as a 1-action action.
But I also agree that it is a bit too harsh to insist on somehow presciently knowing that you are going to need to spend the action on holding your breath before you are shoved underwater or swallowed whole.
In the case of Stifling Stillness specifically, I can see running it like an area with an Inhaled poison - if the effect is already there and you move into it on your turn, then you need to spend the action holding your breath first. If it is cast on top of you, then your first breath of the stagnant air is not your own exhale, and you can start holding your breath as a free action while it is not your turn (if you do know that holding your breath is necessary).
As a note, it doesn’t even explicitly say you begin suffocating. That’s just what is being inferred in the event of not taking a breath nor holding your breath.
The “once they do” is confusing to me. As written the effects only happen if/when that action is taken, so… if the action isn’t taken (such as being stunned), not being able to take an action to breathe implies you don’t breathe.
And when does spending the action happen? The start of turn? Is it a debt like Behold the Weave, where you do it at some point in the turn?
For what it’s worth, I’m on the side of it not suffocating as it doesn’t explicitly say so, but these were points brought up that I can see the angle of.
I treat holding breath as automatic/no cost for those that have rounds of air left to do so when the spell is cast on an area they are in.
Its those creatures that have run out of rounds of air that have to deal with straining to breathe the stagnant air.
And when considering this spell lasts for a minute and the rules for holding breath:
a creature has rounds of air = 5 + Con
They lose 1 round of air each round holding their breath
They lose 2 instead if they attack or cast a spell
They lose a round of air if they suffer a critical hit or critical fail a save
They can't cast a spell that requires speaking without losing all their rounds of air
The effect is limiting and can become punishing even with holding breath as a given.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Creatures in the area that breathe air and aren't holding their breath must spend a single action on their turn straining to breathe the stagnant air; once they do, they still mostly breathe their own exhaled air, taking 3d6 poison damage (basic Fortitude save) and becoming fatigued.
So when they creature starts its turn in the area,
if they are not already holding their breath,- they are forced to spend one action on nothing (straining to breathe the stagnant air),
- become Fatigued (since that is outside the save part)
- and make a save for the 3d6 poison damage.
Not needing to breath or holding its breath counters the entire spell
just to make it clear, the action you are forced to take have nothing to do with holding its breath, its just an action tax similar but mechanical different from slow
I treat holding breath as automatic/no cost for those that have rounds of air left to do so when the spell is cast on an area they are in.
Its those creatures that have run out of rounds of air that have to deal with straining to breathe the stagnant air.
And when considering this spell lasts for a minute and the rules for holding breath:a creature has rounds of air = 5 + Con
They lose 1 round of air each round holding their breath
They lose 2 instead if they attack or cast a spell
They lose a round of air if they suffer a critical hit or critical fail a save
They can't cast a spell that requires speaking without losing all their rounds of airThe effect is limiting and can become punishing even with holding breath as a given.
What happens when you run out of breath mid-turn? Do you instantly lose an action? If you’re casting a spell using all your actions, do you lose that spell?
What happens when you run out of breath mid-turn? Do you instantly lose an action? If you’re casting a spell using all your actions, do you lose that spell?I treat holding breath as automatic/no cost for those that have rounds of air left to do so when the spell is cast on an area they are in.
Its those creatures that have run out of rounds of air that have to deal with straining to breathe the stagnant air.
And when considering this spell lasts for a minute and the rules for holding breath:a creature has rounds of air = 5 + Con
They lose 1 round of air each round holding their breath
They lose 2 instead if they attack or cast a spell
They lose a round of air if they suffer a critical hit or critical fail a save
They can't cast a spell that requires speaking without losing all their rounds of airThe effect is limiting and can become punishing even with holding breath as a given.
When you run out of air, you fall unconscious and start suffocating.
The exact timing on when you lose all air whit casting spell and when you fall unconscious is debated some, its like if breathing out all the air in your lungs but keep holding it, you would fall unconscious (hard/imposible to do irl since we dont have 100% body controll)
For non spellcasts los of air happens at end of turn or out of your turn(saves).
but i guess you are talking about stopping holding their breath before they runs out of air, but then the condition would happen since you are not holding your breath and would need to resolve the spell since it dont have a enter/start turn wording on its effect.
a side note
There is also some discussions on what happens when you run out of air in a breathable environment, since you fall unconscious do you still hold your breath and are therefor still suffocating?
Logical if you would just fall unconscious woudld you not stop holding your breath?
Edit even if you rule that they dont fall unconscious when they run out if air and just stop holding their breath, or stop holding their breath after their last action, they are still in the area of the spell and would have its effect first thing next time its their turn.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What happens when you run out of breath mid-turn? Do you instantly lose an action? If you’re casting a spell using all your actions, do you lose that spell?I treat holding breath as automatic/no cost for those that have rounds of air left to do so when the spell is cast on an area they are in.
Its those creatures that have run out of rounds of air that have to deal with straining to breathe the stagnant air.
And when considering this spell lasts for a minute and the rules for holding breath:a creature has rounds of air = 5 + Con
They lose 1 round of air each round holding their breath
They lose 2 instead if they attack or cast a spell
They lose a round of air if they suffer a critical hit or critical fail a save
They can't cast a spell that requires speaking without losing all their rounds of airThe effect is limiting and can become punishing even with holding breath as a given.
The loss of a round of air happens at the end of the creatures turn for first two listed.
For the last two those happen in that moment so if a creature casts a spell that requires speech with 2 actions they lose all their rounds of air after that spell is cast thay are no longer considered holding their breath and now with their last action must strain to breath the stifling air. If they had no actions left after casting the spell their turn would be over and next turn if still in the area of the spell would need to strain to breath then.If a creature is crit on an opponents turn and loses their last round of air at that time, if they are still in the area when it becomes their turn they will need to use an action to strain to breath.
It doesn't specify that breathing needs to be the first action just that it needs to happen in the turn if the creature is not holding their breath.
When you run out of air, you fall unconscious and start suffocating.
The exact timing on when you lose all air whit casting spell and when you fall unconscious is debated some, its like if breathing out all the air in your lungs but keep holding it, you would fall unconscious (hard/imposible to do irl since we dont have 100% body controll)
For non spellcasts los of air happens at end of turn or out of your turn(saves).
but i guess you are talking about stopping holding their breath before they runs out of air, but then the condition would happen since you are not holding your breath and would need to resolve the spell since it dont have a enter/start turn wording on its effect.
a side note
There is also some discussions on what happens when you run out of air in a breathable environment, since you fall unconscious do you still hold your breath and are therefor still suffocating?
Logical if you would just fall unconscious woudld you not stop holding your breath?Edit even if you rule that they dont fall unconscious when they run...
Above, it was being said you don’t suffocate at all with this spell
Thus I’m right back where I started haha
The loss of a round of air happens at the end of the creatures turn for first two listed.
For the last two those happen in that moment so if a creature casts a spell that requires speech with 2 actions they lose all their rounds of air after that spell is cast thay are no longer considered holding their breath and now with their last action must strain to breath the stifling air. If they had no actions left after casting the spell their turn would be over and next turn if still in the area of the spell would need to strain to breath then.
If a creature is crit on an opponents turn and loses their last round of air at that time, if they are still in the area when it becomes their turn they will need to use an action to strain to breath.
It doesn't specify that breathing needs to be the first action just that it needs to happen in the turn if the creature is not holding their breath.
This makes sense for the most part, but wouldn’t the specific requirement of spending an action override that spell (if you had no actions after the spell)?
To me that kinda seems like straight up ignoring a part of the spell if you could cast a spell without repercussions. Like if you casted a 3 action spell and just ignored the action tax?
The loss of a round of air happens at the end of the creatures turn for first two listed.
For the last two those happen in that moment so if a creature casts a spell that requires speech with 2 actions they lose all their rounds of air after that spell is cast thay are no longer considered holding their breath and now with their last action must strain to breath the stifling air. If they had no actions left after casting the spell their turn would be over and next turn if still in the area of the spell would need to strain to breath then.
If a creature is crit on an opponents turn and loses their last round of air at that time, if they are still in the area when it becomes their turn they will need to use an action to strain to breath.
It doesn't specify that breathing needs to be the first action just that it needs to happen in the turn if the creature is not holding their breath.This makes sense for the most part, but wouldn’t the specific requirement of spending an action override that spell (if you had no actions after the spell)?
To me that kinda seems like straight up ignoring a part of the spell if you could cast a spell without repercussions. Like if you casted a 3 action spell and just ignored the action tax?
When they used the two actions or three to cast the spell they still had rounds of air. Casting the spell and thus speaking causes them to lose all their rounds of air. It seems like its creating a catch 22 if they lose the air but dont get to actually cast their spell if we retroactively force them to use an action to breath.
When you run out of air, you fall unconscious and start suffocating.
The exact timing on when you lose all air whit casting spell and when you fall unconscious is debated some, its like if breathing out all the air in your lungs but keep holding it, you would fall unconscious (hard/imposible to do irl since we dont have 100% body controll)
For non spellcasts los of air happens at end of turn or out of your turn(saves).
but i guess you are talking about stopping holding their breath before they runs out of air, but then the condition would happen since you are not holding your breath and would need to resolve the spell since it dont have a enter/start turn wording on its effect.
a side note
There is also some discussions on what happens when you run out of air in a breathable environment, since you fall unconscious do you still hold your breath and are therefor still suffocating?
Logical if you would just fall unconscious woudld you not stop holding your breath?Edit even if you rule that they dont fall unconscious when they run...
Above, it was being said you don’t suffocate at all with this spell
Thus I’m right back where I started haha
No the spell itself dont have anything with Suffocating its the act of holding your breath to prevent the spell that can cause Suffocation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------
The loss of a round of air happens at the end of the creatures turn for first two listed.
For the last two those happen in that moment so if a creature casts a spell that requires speech with 2 actions they lose all their rounds of air after that spell is cast thay are no longer considered holding their breath and now with their last action must strain to breath the stifling air. If they had no actions left after casting the spell their turn would be over and next turn if still in the area of the spell would need to strain to breath then.
If a creature is crit on an opponents turn and loses their last round of air at that time, if they are still in the area when it becomes their turn they will need to use an action to strain to breath.
It doesn't specify that breathing needs to be the first action just that it needs to happen in the turn if the creature is not holding their breath.This makes sense for the most part, but wouldn’t the specific requirement of spending an action override that spell (if you had no actions after the spell)?
To me that kinda seems like straight up ignoring a part of the spell if you could cast a spell without repercussions. Like if you casted a 3 action spell and just ignored the action tax?
you would need to have started holding you breath before entering the spell(or before its cast on you) for that to even be a possibility so not realy a problem