Hello, I recently asked the same question on Reddit, but got only one reply. That might help me defending my point of view, but I am curious, if someone here knows the answer and is able to prove me right or wrong.
I play an Investigator in our Kingmaker campaign and ran into a problem in our last session. I used Devise a Stratagem and rolled poorly, so I decided to take the Skill Stratagem since it gives me a +3 buff (with Pursue a Lead) on Int-, Wis-, and Cha-based skill checks. Then I tried to demoralize the enemy on which I used DaS, I failed and wanted to reroll the check using the "Let's Try That Again" reaction. Other players stated, I couldn't reroll the demoralize, because both DaS and "Let's Try That Again" have the Fortune Trait.
So my question is: Does the Fortune Trait of DaS also counts to the skill checks that uses the buff of the Skill Stratagem and therefore prevents me to use another Fortune Effect, like "Let's Try That Again" or a Hero Point? Or does the Fortune Trait of DaS only prevents me of rerolling the D20 of DaS itself?
I'd never even noticed that DaS had the Fortune trait; it seems very out of place.
Well, you roll a D20 and have the choice to replace your attack roll with the result. So altering the attack roll. Therefore it has an fortune trait. And in my opinion only because of this substitution, but that is the point where some of my group disagree and claim that using a Skill Stratagem somehow extend this Fortune Trait to the skill check rolled.
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Fortune: "You can never have more than one fortune effect alter a single roll."
Skill Stratagem: You gain a +1 circumstance bonus to your next Intelligence-, Wisdom-, or Charisma-based skill check or Perception check involving the target before the start of your next turn."
Let's Try That Again: "Reroll the triggering skill check and use the new result, even if it’s worse than your first roll."
The other players are 100% right, you can't use both as both are Fortune effects. There are fortune effects that do not involve rerolls. For instance, Unity allows the use of the caster's save modifiers, Tempt Fate gives save bonuses and can shift a success to a crit, Prophet's Luck gives bonuses/minuses to rolls, ect. Just because a Fortune trait normally involves a reroll doesn't mean that's the ONLY effect a Fortune effect can have.
Fortune: "You can never have more than one fortune effect alter a single roll."
Skill Stratagem: You gain a +1 circumstance bonus to your next Intelligence-, Wisdom-, or Charisma-based skill check or Perception check involving the target before the start of your next turn."
Let's Try That Again: "Reroll the triggering skill check and use the new result, even if it’s worse than your first roll."
The other players are 100% right, you can't use both as both are Fortune effects. There are fortune effects that do not involve rerolls. For instance, Unity allows the use of the caster's save modifiers, Tempt Fate gives save bonuses and can shift a success to a crit, Prophet's Luck gives bonuses/minuses to rolls, ect. Just because a Fortune trait normally involves a reroll doesn't mean that's the ONLY effect a Fortune effect can have.
Ah okay, I didn't know Fortune Effects include status/circumstance bonuses. I've interpreted "[...] alters how you roll your dice" more directly regarding the D20 roll itself than the whole "formula". Thank you for the clarification.
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I'd never even noticed that DaS had the Fortune trait; it seems very out of place.Well, you roll a D20 and have the choice to replace your attack roll with the result.
You don't have that choice: "Attack Stratagem If you Strike the chosen creature before the start of your next turn, you must use the result of the d20 roll for your Strike's attack roll instead of rolling". (Archive of Nethys)
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You don't have that choice: "Attack Stratagem If you Strike the chosen creature before the start of your next turn, you must use the result of the d20 roll for your Strike's attack roll instead of rolling". (Archive of Nethys)I'd never even noticed that DaS had the Fortune trait; it seems very out of place.Well, you roll a D20 and have the choice to replace your attack roll with the result.
This is not true. But I see that this might be miscommunicated. You can choose between Attack or Skill Stratagem (later even Defense), but you are allowed to roll the D20 beforehand and decide then. "Roll a d20, then decide on an attack stratagem or skill stratagem."
Attack Stratagem does what you cited. Skill Stratagem gives you a bonus to your next Int-, Wis- or Cha-based skill or perception check involving the target, but you are not allowed to strike said target.