Tentacle potion

[Waldham]

Hello, Is it possible with a greater tentacle potion to hold a fan (a fan in a hand and a free hand) and use the intercepting hands/transcendent deflection from Spirit warrior archetype and sweeping fan block/sweeping fan redirection [You’re wielding two fans, one in each hand] from Fan dancer archetype ?

Thanks for your future answer.

[NorrKnekten]

I believe the quickest way to answer this is to point out that outside of unarmed attacks, The tentacle from Greater Tentacle Potion cannot be used with actions that require a Check.

Sweeping Fan Block looks fine, But Sweeping Fan Redirection does a ranged attack roll which is a Check.

For Spirit Warrior you can obviously can use the free hand with Disarming Interception but I believe you need to parry with the hand itself.

Transcient deflection looks fine to since it only cares about a weapon and no checks.

[Waldham]

Quote:

But Sweeping Fan Redirection does a ranged attack roll which is a Check.

There are an other fan in one hand, isn't enough to attempt the check ?

[NorrKnekten]

Waldham wrote:

Quote:

But Sweeping Fan Redirection does a ranged attack roll which is a Check.

There are an other fan in one hand, isn't enough to attempt the check ?

You said that one fan was held in the tentacle from Greater Tentacle Potion in order to keep the other hand free yes?

Tentacle potion behaves as following

tentacle potion wrote:

Upon consuming this mottled, foul-tasting liquid, the tentacle potion causes you to extrude a long, flexible limb of ectoplasm. Your clothing doesn't need to accommodate this limb of ghostly matter, which can extrude through your clothing and armor. The limb lasts 1 hour, and you can Dismiss the activation. You can't hide or disguise the tentacle. You can use the limb to perform simple Interact actions, such as opening an unlocked door. Your limb can't perform actions that require significant manual dexterity, including any action that would require a check to accomplish. You can't use it to hold items. At one time, you can have only one extra limb from any version of this potion. Stronger tentacle potions replace the effects of weaker ones.

Greater tentacle and moderate tentacle potions adds these things.

*Can hold items
*Can use it to hang from ledges
*Can make unarmed attacks.

Theres nothing in the potion RAW that tells me that it would let you use any other action than the unarmed attack if it requires a check.

Since Sweeping Fan Redirection requires both the use of both fans and needs a check to accomplish then you would need both fans in your actual hands and not one in the extra limb from the potion.

If GM is nice obviously this doesnt need to be followed but this is the RAW of it.

[QuidEst]

Waldham wrote:

Hello, Is it possible with a greater tentacle potion to hold a fan (a fan in a hand and a free hand) and use the intercepting hands/transcendent deflection from Spirit warrior archetype and sweeping fan block/sweeping fan redirection [You’re wielding two fans, one in each hand] from Fan dancer archetype ?

Thanks for your future answer.

No, definitely not.

Fan Dancer's requirements aren't "you are holding two fans", they are "you are wielding two fans", and the archetype specifically calls out that a regular fan is being wielded as an improvised weapon for the archetype.

The tentacle potion doesn't let you wield weapons, so any fan held by it won't qualify.

[NorrKnekten]

QuidEst wrote:

Waldham wrote:

Hello, Is it possible with a greater tentacle potion to hold a fan (a fan in a hand and a free hand) and use the intercepting hands/transcendent deflection from Spirit warrior archetype and sweeping fan block/sweeping fan redirection [You’re wielding two fans, one in each hand] from Fan dancer archetype ?

Thanks for your future answer.

No, definitely not.

Fan Dancer's requirements aren't "you are holding two fans", they are "you are wielding two fans", and the archetype specifically calls out that a regular fan is being wielded as an improvised weapon for the archetype.

The tentacle potion doesn't let you wield weapons, so any fan held by it won't qualify.

Actually yeah. you are right, Good catch.

[Waldham]

Moderate or greater tentacle potion permit to hold an item, no ?

[NorrKnekten]

Waldham wrote:

Moderate or greater tentacle potion permit to hold an item, no ?

Holding an item is different from Wielding an item.

When you are holding an item you are doing exactly that, holding it. you can hold a greatsword or greataxe in a single hand.

But to wield it means you are holding it in a way that makes you ready and able to use the item.
The tentacle can hold a fan yes, But it cannot attack with it or otherwise use it as a weapon so it cannot wield it.

There is an important distinction and GM decision here that I see.
RAW you are wielding an item when you are holding it in the required hands to use it. But at the same time the tentacle cannot use weapons. So its technically it cant wield them.

[Trip.H]

Waldham wrote:

Moderate or greater tentacle potion permit to hold an item, no ?

Holding is not "wielding" which means to be able to fight / strike with it correctly.

You can "hold" a dagger by the blade, but "Wielding" a dagger means to have a secure grip on it, ready to stab.

The tentacle is fine to hold stuff, but lacks the dexterity/strength to wield any weapon.

[QuidEst]

Waldham wrote:

Moderate or greater tentacle potion permit to hold an item, no ?

Wielding is different from holding. The best example is that you can hold a two-handed weapon in one hand, but not wield it.

"Some abilities require you to wield an item, typically a weapon. You’re wielding an item any time you’re holding it in the number of hands needed to use it effectively. When wielding an item, you’re not just carrying it around—you’re ready to use it. Other abilities might require you to be wearing the item, to be holding it, or simply to have it."

Because the tentacle potion never lets you make weapon attacks, you can't wield the fans as weapons with it.

---

HOLD ON.

I'm sorry! I looked up Fan Dancer, and I looked up Tentacle Potion. I thought I remembered Spirit Warrior, and so I didn't look it up. I was thinking it was just another "you need a free hand" situation.

These two actually work just fine together without the Tentacle Potion, because Spirit Warrior doesn't require a free hand. It frequently references fist attacks, but you are allowed to make those with kicks instead. We even know that it's intentional, because dedication allows you to be using a two-handed weapon as long as it's agile or finesse.

SO.

For Fan Dancer's feats, you need to be wielding a fan in each hand. If they're regular fans, you're using them as improvised weapons.

Transcendent Deflection requires you to be wielding a one-handed weapon (you are in fact wielding two, so you're good). As a reaction, you can break one of your fans and swap it for a spare you have on your person- say, in your belt. No free hand is required.

Intercepting Hand's Disarming Deflection reaction requires you to have your "fist" positioned to parry. Pathfinder unfortunately chose to refer to all of the default unarmed strikes as "fist", but that can include kicking with your foot. (I know, I know... it's incredibly silly that we've been pointing out that "hold" and "wield" are different, but then we go on to say that your foot is a fist.) So, if you spent an action last turn parrying with your foot, you can use a reaction when a weapon strike is made against you or your adjacent ally to try to disarm them. Normally, this is where things would break, because disarming requires a free hand. But, if we read the reaction, it say if you have a free hand, you can catch the weapon on a successful disarm. So, you're kicking the weapon out of their hand. And, finally, here's where the tentacle potion does something. If you have the tentacle potion at a level where it can hold something, the GM may decide that it counts as a "free hand" to catch the disarmed weapon.

What you want to do works just fine. Fan Dancer is more restrictive than you were thinking, but Spirit Warrior is less restrictive than you were thinking. The two balance out, and the concept is still possible. I'm sorry for not looking into all three parts earlier!

[NorrKnekten]

That makes sense but also makes the naming very unfortunate as when a technique is called intercepting HANDS I don't expect someone to just kick a weapon out of someones hand.