Race Builder: Humanoid with both Half-Construct and Half-Undead?

[Reksew_Trebla]

So the Race Builder has two special subtypes: Half-Construct and Half-Undead, which can be added to any of the type options except Construct and Undead. Now Half-Construct and Half-Undead are not the Construct nor Undead types. Like I said already, they are SUBtypes. The section on them also says if you add them to the Humanoid type, you need to choose another subtype to pair with them. Could you add both of them as your two (and only two) Humanoid subtypes?

This would be the closest I could get to a Half-Construct, Half-Undead creature. I'm not 100% certain on what kind of Construct/Undead they would be, but the idea is that this could be used to make something like Cyborg Zombies, which is cool, so I want to do it.

I guess as the GM I could just say it works, since I'm not seeing anything that says it doesn't, but it feels like I'm breaking the spirit of the rules, which might mean there would be a balance issue I'd have to account for.

[Mysterious Stranger]

The race builder rules are too easily broken, and most GM's do not allow a PC to use them. For the most part they are designed to be used by the GM not players.

[Claxon]

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

The race builder rules are too easily broken, and most GM's do not allow a PC to use them. For the most part they are designed to be used by the GM not players.

Came here to say the same thing, if you're a player in the campaign you shouldn't even look at these rules.

If you're the GM, you can do whatever you like. Just come up with some sort of narrative justification for how this creature exists. Frankenstein's monster was such a story, what with the body being constructed and coming back to life.

Ultimately, the race builder tool is for GMs to use to build new races for player facing content (to help keep it balanced, but the tool is easily broken and unbalanced). For non-player facing options, it's just a monster/NPC. It doesn't need to be justified by anything, and the only balance needs to be that is is an appropriate challenge for your players.

[Belafon]

I’m pretty sure it wasn’t considered, but there’s nothing that seems to explicitly prevent it. However, take the following into account:

Quote:

If you are making a standard race and still want it to be a construct or undead race, consider the two special subtypes detailed below, the half-construct and half-undead.

Standard races have 1-10 RP. The two half-races sum up to 12 RP without any other qualities: so you would need to take some weaknesses to lower that down to 10.

As others have said, Race Builder is really a GM-only tool. (Hey, you are the GM!) Even as a GM, I find it is best used as a “sanity check” when building a race for your players to use. Come up with the race first, then use the Builder to see what range your set of qualities would fall in. If it’s higher than 10 it doesn’t mean you can’t use it, but you will know you likely need to increase CRs to account for stronger PCs.

[Claxon]

And most importantly (to me) it doesn't sound like the race your attempting to design is player facing.

I mean maybe it is, but generally speaking I don't expect players to all jump onboard and say "yes I want to play a zombie cyborg", although maybe that's just the conceit of your narrative.

I say this, to again reiterate that if this isn't for the players to use as a race, you don't even need to bother with race builder rules. Just do whatever you want and figure out how much of a CR booster that gives to the enemies.

[Reksew_Trebla]

Thank you all for the words of wisdom. I'm going to go ahead and do this though. I'll keep in mind how strong this ends up being, so I don't make it too strong.

This is indeed not for the players, but I wouldn't be completely opposed to them playing one at a higher level (treating them as being one level higher than they actually are, so having the xp and wealth of +1 level).

I'm going to look through the options now to see what I can make. Wish me luck on this. Thank you all again.

[Diego Rossi]

From what I see, the Half-Construct and Half-Undead aren't from a Paizo product.
They are in D20 PFSRD, but not in Archive of Nethys.

They are both "Special Subtypes" that require a second Subtype (not a Special Subtype) to be complete. I don't think the two special subtypes are meant to be mixed.

As the GM you can use them to create a Deathlok like character, but it seems a bad combination for a player. Being unable to be Raised or Resurrected and only healed by negative energy would make them problematic for a long lasting game.

[Mysterious Stranger]

They are on AON which list the source as the Advanced Race Guide pg 216. Special Sub-type

[Pizza Lord]

When I read the part about pairing half-undead or half-construct with a another subtype, I perceive that as pairing it with another humanoid subtype, like human, elf, orc, or goblin, not with another special, non-standard subtype.

I don't think the two options work together without intense detailing and shoehorning. You can have a race that's a cyborg-like living organism kept alive or functioning by machinery (even magical machinery like golems) like a brain in a jar, or you can have them kept alive by undead body parts or energy. I don't think mixing the two (in the form of an entire race or species, as opposed to some individual, unique character) really works, if you're a 'robot/construct' with the rest of you dead/undead, then you're probably just a robot or a golem made from dead parts. If you're an undead with some cybernetic/golem-like prosthetics, then that's probably just add-ons but not racials.

Not saying a GM couldn't do it, but it would have to be such a nuanced and designed and planned for race to make it feasibly believable and workable into the setting (which could also just be handwaved to work around them). Which, again, a GM can do.

I just don't think the race builder rules are meant to do it, but if you (as the GM) find them helpful or as a guideline in making your own or trying to balance it, great, but I wouldn't try and justify your calls by saying they're balanced or 'acceptable' or even tested.