2e Remastered spell "Pest Form" question

[Spiderguy71]

I think I am interpreting this correct. Even though you choose the "Battle form" of a Tiny creature, you stay your original size. Is this correct?

[Castilliano]

No...was my original answer because it's the whole point of the spell.
Except the spell does say (in AoN) that it has no effect on your size.
Except wait, that's not right either.

Restart.
"You transform into the battle form of a Tiny animal, such as a cat, insect, lizard, or rat. You can decide the specific type of animal (such as a rat or praying mantis), but this has no effect on your Size or statistics. While in this form, you gain the animal trait, and you can't make Strikes. You can Dismiss the spell."

First sentence, you become Tiny. Straightforward.
Second sentence, you decide the animal, and it's this decision that has no effect on your size (or other effects of the spell). So whether you choose praying mantis or cat, you become the same size, which is Tiny. So there's no way to become extra, extra small, nor to be such a large cat that you're size Small (because some real world cats are as big as fantasy Halflings).

Also there's no way to get faster or gain even more special senses like by becoming a mantis shrimp or bat, etc. In fact, you could transform into a snail, and be neither slow nor nearly blind. You might even become more acrobatic. :-)

[Finoan]

Castilliano wrote:

First sentence, you become Tiny. Straightforward.

Second sentence, you decide the animal, and it's this decision that has no effect on your size (or other effects of the spell).

Exactly. The spell does change your size. It changes your size to Tiny.

Don't read 'but this has no effect on your Size' out of context. The decision of which animal type to be has no override effect on the spell changing your size to tiny.

[Mathmuse]

Finoan wrote:

Castilliano wrote:

First sentence, you become Tiny. Straightforward.

Second sentence, you decide the animal, and it's this decision that has no effect on your size (or other effects of the spell).

Exactly. The spell does change your size. It changes your size to Tiny.

Don't read 'but this has no effect on your Size' out of context. The decision of which animal type to be has no override effect on the spell changing your size to tiny.

That is the most logical explanation for the statement about Size, assuming that it is not an error, but it is so redundant that it is confusing. Since the caster has to chose a Tiny animal, the size will be Tiny regardless of the choice of a specific type of Tiny animal.

Giving a praying mantis as an example would suggest that Extra Tiny is an option (Diminutive size does not appear under Size, Space, and Reach in the Player Core), but that is not the case. Pest Form would transform the caster into a praying mantis that is treated as Tiny rather than the real-life size of a praying mantis. Crawling through keyholes won't be allowed.

[thenobledrake]

Mathmuse wrote:

Crawling through keyholes won't be allowed.

This is exactly why the allegedly confusing redundancy is necessary; players are definitely going to read the spell and think that which tiny creature they choose is going to matter because a spider and a rat are both "Tiny" even though they aren't the same specific dimensions (just like someone 6'3" and someone 5'2" are both Medium and don't have different rules interactions in this game despite one not being able to reach the top shelf in my actual kitchen) - and the spell is clarifying that not to be the case.

If that bit of text weren't there it'd just be another place where people argue about what is or isn't actually valid according to the wording of the rule, and it only presents as "confusing" when viewed from the perspective of already understanding the outcome of not being able to crawl through keyholes and the like.

[Farien]

Well, there you have it. Bots can't distinguish a spellcaster using Pest Form from an actual tiny size creature.

Let the stealth infiltration and scouting missions begin.

[Witch of Miracles]

I'll admit, I got a kick out of seeing "pestsolution" answer a question about pest form. Real shame it was just a bot.