If I understand and remember correctly, the general consensus is that yes, it does.
Though it is sometimes houseruled away.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Spellstrike doesn't add or remove traits like Manipulate or Concentrate from the subordinate action spell in any way. The spell triggers exact the same reactions regardless of whether it is part of Spellstrike.
I wouldn't even describe it as a general consensus. There just isn't any ambiguity at all. Some people do houserule, but there aren't really any variations in readings of the standard rule.
|
I just ask this because there is nothing stating it that I could find.
On Archive of Nethys, it treats Spellstrike as an activity, which causes you to Cast A Spell as part of it. There isn't any mention about how Spellstrike is or isn't affected by using a spell with the Manipulate trait.
I just wanted to know what the opinion is on this (until, you know, Magus gets Remastered).
It does. You're doing Cast a Spell as part of doing Spellstrike, as Spellstrike says. Cast a Spell takes on the traits of the spell you cast, including Manipulate.
It can get really rough playing a melee Magus in some encounters because of that.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I just ask this because there is nothing stating it that I could find.
On Archive of Nethys, it treats Spellstrike as an activity, which causes you to Cast A Spell as part of it. There isn't any mention about how Spellstrike is or isn't affected by using a spell with the Manipulate trait.
I just wanted to know what the opinion is on this (until, you know, Magus gets Remastered).
If you look at the sidebar on page 415 Player Core it explains that subordinate actions keep their traits even when they are called for as part of an activity.
So stride as part of sudden charge would still trigger reactive strikes because of the move trait, and casting a spell as part of spellstrike still triggers reactive strike cause of the manipulate trait.In contrast Channel Smite specifically removes the manipulate trait from the spell cast in the activity.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The text explaining Subordinate Actions is:
Subordinate Actions
An action might allow you to use a simpler action—usually one of the Basic Actions—in a different circumstance or with different effects. This subordinate action still has its normal traits and effects, but it's modified in any ways listed in the larger action. For example, an activity that tells you to Stride up to half your Speed alters the normal distance you can move in a Stride. The Stride would still have the move trait, would still trigger reactions that occur based on movement, and so on. The subordinate action doesn't gain any of the traits of the larger action unless specified. The action that allows you to use a subordinate action doesn't require you to spend more actions or reactions to do so; that cost is already factored in.Using an activity is not the same as using any of its subordinate actions. For example, the quickened condition you get from the haste spell lets you spend an extra action each turn to Stride or Strike, but you couldn't use the extra action for an activity that includes a Stride or Strike. As another example, if you used an action that specified, “If the next action you use is a Strike,” an activity that includes a Strike wouldn't count, because the next thing you are doing is starting an activity, not using the Strike basic action
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Even more specifically:
This subordinate action still has its normal traits and effects, but it's modified in any ways listed in the larger action. For example, an activity that tells you to Stride up to half your Speed alters the normal distance you can move in a Stride. The Stride would still have the move trait, would still trigger reactions that occur based on movement, and so on.
So the subordinate Cast a Spell action in Spellstrike would still have the Manipulate trait and would still provoke reactions that trigger on Manipulate actions (or reactions that trigger on Cast a Spell directly).
And yes, saying that it is a general consensus is being generous to those who really, really don't like it.
|
|
I just ask this because there is nothing stating it that I could find.
On Archive of Nethys, it treats Spellstrike as an activity, which causes you to Cast A Spell as part of it. There isn't any mention about how Spellstrike is or isn't affected by using a spell with the Manipulate trait.
I just wanted to know what the opinion is on this (until, you know, Magus gets Remastered).
If you look at the sidebar on page 415 Player Core it explains that subordinate actions keep their traits even when they are called for as part of an activity.
So stride as part of sudden charge would still trigger reactive strikes because of the move trait, and casting a spell as part of spellstrike still triggers reactive strike cause of the manipulate trait.In contrast Channel Smite specifically removes the manipulate trait from the spell cast in the activity.
Considering Channel Smite didn't include that wording in the Premaster... How much you all want to bet that Remastered Spellstrike might also include a "the spell doesn't have the manipulate trait when cast this way" in the text?
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Considering Channel Smite didn't include that wording in the Premaster... How much you all want to bet that Remastered Spellstrike might also include a "the spell doesn't have the manipulate trait when cast this way" in the text?I just ask this because there is nothing stating it that I could find.
On Archive of Nethys, it treats Spellstrike as an activity, which causes you to Cast A Spell as part of it. There isn't any mention about how Spellstrike is or isn't affected by using a spell with the Manipulate trait.
I just wanted to know what the opinion is on this (until, you know, Magus gets Remastered).
If you look at the sidebar on page 415 Player Core it explains that subordinate actions keep their traits even when they are called for as part of an activity.
So stride as part of sudden charge would still trigger reactive strikes because of the move trait, and casting a spell as part of spellstrike still triggers reactive strike cause of the manipulate trait.In contrast Channel Smite specifically removes the manipulate trait from the spell cast in the activity.
It would be a welcome addition.