Class Design with Free Archtype Variant in Mind?

[Bluemagetim]

I wonder if class archtypes are really balanced more around a free archtype game than a normal one.
Battle harbinger kinda is a lot better in a free archtype game than in games without free archtype.
And yes everything is better off in free archtype but it does feel like some classes are actually too restrictive without it.
What do you all think?

[Powers128]

Yeah harbinger and Palatine detective are very hungry for those archetype feats.

I doubt they're intentionally designed that way for use in free archetype but maybe it's like a subconscious thing.

[SuperBidi]

Bluemagetim wrote:

I wonder if class archtypes are really balanced more around a free archtype game than a normal one.

Battle harbinger kinda is a lot better in a free archtype game than in games without free archtype.
And yes everything is better off in free archtype but it does feel like some classes are actually too restrictive without it.
What do you all think?

Classes behave differently when you allow Free Archetype. Some classes don't really benefit from it (Kineticist, Summoner) and others get lots of good things out of it. This is an optional rule and as such classes are not balanced around it.

[Witch of Miracles]

Classes aren't balanced around free archetype at all. Frankly, I'm not sure they're balanced against just taking archetype feats instead of class feats in many cases.

[Easl]

SuperBidi wrote:

Classes behave differently when you allow Free Archetype. Some classes don't really benefit from it (Kineticist, Summoner) and others get lots of good things out of it. This is an optional rule and as such classes are not balanced around it.

For those classes I tend to look for passive or skill benefits. Acrobat, Archaeologist, Dandy, Scout. Extra skill proficiencies are good on anyone, and in the kineticist case the right free archetype is an easy way to make up for not starting with a skill you wanted or getting an extra early game +2 to a skill you have a low attribute in. For sure, they in no way scratch the "does this make me more effective in combat" itch, but not every build choice need be about that. At least, not in our games, YMMV.

[Bluemagetim]

SuperBidi wrote:

Bluemagetim wrote:

I wonder if class archtypes are really balanced more around a free archtype game than a normal one.

Battle harbinger kinda is a lot better in a free archtype game than in games without free archtype.
And yes everything is better off in free archtype but it does feel like some classes are actually too restrictive without it.
What do you all think?

Classes behave differently when you allow Free Archetype. Some classes don't really benefit from it (Kineticist, Summoner) and others get lots of good things out of it. This is an optional rule and as such classes are not balanced around it.

I figure your take must be the right answer, its like looking at the result of the design along with the popularity of the variant rule I was thinking maybe there is something to it.

[PossibleCabbage]

Class Archetypes should be balanced against other Archetypes, which are balanced around "other things you could be doing with Class Feats, which are the most valuable kind of Class Feat."

The game is "balanced" around feats generally giving horizontal power (i.e. versatility) rather than vertical power so it's in a sense also balanced around "double Class Feats" which is a strictly more powerful variant than Free Archetype.

Whether or not to run a game with extra feats of any kind is basically a decision about whether you want the PCs to feel more broadly competent, and whether that's worth the extra mental hurdle of "you have to make more feat choices."