| drakkonflye |
I don't get to play much PFS2 because there are no local games and I am totally ignorant about playing in online groups, so this is just based on what I have been reading across this forum, but instead of having a cantrip to Create Thrall and an innate ability to Consume Thrall to gain a focus point, why don't we just make both abilities innate abilities for the Necromancer and make the thralls manifestations of the necromancer's focus pool?
I'm seeing a lot of posts claiming sacrificing a thrall AND spending a focus point is too high a cost for most of the Necromancer's focus spells, so what if it was one or the other, with the downside being that the thralls ARE the focus points, so the most any necro can have at any one time of 3 per focus spell rules. They would have to consume one to use a focus spell, but can use an action to create another one, and can still attack with the newly created thrall as per Create Thrall (with applicable MAP, of course).
Granted, this means they won't be able to flood the battlefield with thralls, but maybe this can open up the possibility of letting the thralls perform simple basic actions (Fetch, Step, Stride, Strike) instead of just standing there, although the Necromancer should still have to use an action to Command a thrall. If you still want Necromancers to create multiple thralls at higher levels, let them choose to Create or Command the same number at said level.
I am guessing the cost of focus point AND thrall for some focus spells is probably more for crowd control and keeping the number of thralls down, but most of the spells aren't really worth the cost, and the ones that are could simply cost two or more thralls to cast, while the ones that create additional effects if a second thrall is destroyed stay the same.
Yes, this changes the dynamics for focus points and spells, but let's be honest, this class is all about changing the dynamics of those anyways.
| YuriP |
Probably the ideal of focus point + thrall was more to keep in same aspect of resource cost of a normal spellcaster chassis.
That said I agree that some of necromancer focus spells could be a cantrip that consume thrall and only the strongest ones that would have a focus point cost.
The other point is that up to now I didn't find any reason to necromancer be a 2 slots per rank. Nothing in the class justifies this. Its chassis is no better than a druid chassis so IMO it would be a 3 spellslots caster or get some really powerful focus cantrips like psychic amps to justify.
| Hamitup |
I don't know if this solve the problem that I have. I know I have talked about the cost of grave spells being to high in other discussions.
My issue is that the pay in multiple ways to get access to focus spells that are on par with existing focus spells. You have reduced spell slots to justify having powerful focus spells, but then pay again by having to create a thrall first. This problem is less noticeable once you start summoning more thralls at once, but still there if it is turn 1, the previous thralls have been destroyed, or are not in the right spot to be used.
Muscle barrier is comparable to lay on hands. 10 temp hp vs 6 hp. +1 athletics vs +2 ac. Lay on hands is range touch while muscle barrier says range of 75ft (60ft to the thrall and 15ft from the thrall), but you cant summon a thrall that far without a feat. So, the range is more like 45ft(30ft + 15ft). You pay 2 extra actions for 45ft.
Soul siphon and life tap are very similar. Both are a fort save that can inflict drain and give hp/temp hp based off the save. While soul siphon can only give you temp hp, it cost 2 less actions.
Thunder burst and necrotic bomb are close. Both are basically fireball with extra steps. Necrotic bomb does about 5 to 12 more damage depending on the rank. The range and area are larger for thunder burst, it has a chance to deafen, and cost 1 less action.
Using thralls as focus points sounds similar to summoning thralls on initiative with extra steps. You would still need to use actions to get them in the right spot, but you would also be vulnerable to losing your focus points before actually using them. I would be nervous that one breath weapon could take out all of my focus points.