My first impressions upon a read-through


Runesmith Class Discussion


So here’s my regular “first impressions” stuff that I do for these playtests.

Class Features:
I’m afraid that the “runes” for this class will get confused with the weapon/armor runes, but I could also see sticking with the word since there’s a whole culture surrounding runes in the setting.

That said, I would recommend maybe changing “etching” to another word to avoid confusion with the etching that’s associated with weapon/armor runes.

Also, I would add some ruling about being able to Dismiss a rune, that way you don’t have to either invoke or spend multiple 10 minute intervals to replace the most recently-etched rune.

Being able to Invoke multiple Runes in one action is…very interesting. Not sure how (maybe) overpowered that is yet, though.

Ohhh. Just reread the rules, and the fact that traced runes only last until the end of your next turn makes some sense, but it also makes some feats really really difficult to get off. I think having it last longer makes for a really interesting combat dynamic of using your spare action to Trace a Rune while still decently participating in combat via Strikes, etc., then becoming very powerful when you Invoke the Runes later, or even use special invocation actions.

Assured Runic Crafter is really powerful, but I don’t think it’s overpowered, just really really powerful. That said, with the level it’s at, I think it’s pretty balanced.

Runic Optimization is actually a very interesting and flavorful alternative to Weapon Specialization.

Feats:
Rune-Singer: This…seems like the obvious level 1 feat for the removal of the manipulate trait.

Smithing Weapons Familiarity: This is kind of a meh feat for this level, especially considering most familiarity feats are ancestry feats.

Artist’s Attendance: Why is the Frequency entry necessary?

Ghostly Resonance: This seems…a bit too strong to just “freely” give ghost touch

Tracing Trance: Okay, this needs to only be once per day or something, because otherwise it’s just way too good and basically the equivalent of a level 20 feat for most other classes, and thus becomes the must-take feat at this level. ESPECIALLY considering a traced rune only lasts basically 1 round.

Vital Composite Invocation: I feel like there should be another feat at this level like this for arcane and occult

Chain of Words: Okay, this is really fun.

Astral Composite Invocation: I feel like there should be another feat at this level like this for divine and primal

Expanded Glossary: Meh

Define the Canvas: either make it an emanation or explicitly call out the burst is centered on a corner of the runesmith’s square

By Your Name: how does this interact with the true name rules from Secrets of Magic?

Return Unto Runes: Maybe specify if the spell counts as having hit the creature, or if a new spell attack needs to be made.

Annihilating Composite Invocation: How many actions is this? EDIT: with runes only lasting basically one turn, this feat is gonna be next to impossible to set up for.

Living Lexicon: Meh

Forge New Word: first, in my opinion, the tradition of the rune should match one of the spell lists it’s normally on (e.g. divine or primal for heal). Second: what does this rune do? I assume it invokes for the effects of the spell, but it doesn’t say that in the feat.

Runes:
Atryl, Rune of Fire: Reduce by 6?! That’s ridiculously powerful for level 1! That said, even putting it on a creature requires setup, so I guess it makes sense.

Esvadir, rune of whetstones: Boy, that feels…a bit too potent, especially considering you can put this on, say, a barbarian.

Holtrik, rune of Dwarven ramparts: so the invocation is only ever gonna be useful if it’s etched on an item that belongs to someone than the runesmith?

Marssyl, rune of impact: this rune should be reworded so that the runebearer is immune to the splash if it’s on a melee unarmed attack

OLJINEX, RUNE OF COWARDS’ BANE: I feel like the invocation should have a save associated with it so it’s not just…”be slowed 1 or stay next to the fighter with Reactive Strike”

PLUUNA, RUNE OF ILLUMINATION: Weird that it’s an item penalty. Otherwise, it seems fine.

RANSHU, RUNE OF THUNDER: my gut says that the non-invoke damage could scale up by dice instead of just +1, but I’m also not fully sure if that’s too powerful or not.

UR-, DIACRITIC RUNE OF INTENSITY: I feel like the Usage should be adjusted to specify only runes whose INVOCATION deals damage, rather than just any rune that deals damage.

ZOHK, RUNE OF HOMECOMING: While this is definitely interesting and a bit situational, I feel like it should, say, start at a +10 foot bonus, and have that bonus scale—e.g. Level (+6)

EN-, DIACRITIC RUNE OF EXPANSION: Make it an emanation; bursts cannot be centered on creatures. “If any creatures are also within the area, they are subject to the base rune’s effects (including any saving throw).” This sentence is a bit confusing, because I’m not sure if this is referring to the base invocation effect or something else.

ICHELSU, RUNE OF OBSERVATION: WHOA!!! That is WAY too powerful! When etched this is basically the equivalent of three rank 5 spell slots (to have see the unseen for 24 hours) AND gives immunity to flanking, which, afaik, is NOWHERE ELSE for PCs! Honestly, you would basically never invoke this thing because the boon for one PC FAR outweighs the benefits it’d give to all PCs for only 2 rounds.

INTH-, DIACRITIC RUNE OF CORRUPTION: I find it really weird that this rune exists in the playtest, but an equivalent diacritic doesn’t exist for fighting against unholy creatures, which feels like it’d be a lot more common to playtest.

TROLISTRI, RUNE OF FORLORN SORROW: I think it would be easier to word this as “enemies treat squares within 20 feet of the runebearer as difficult terrain when moving closer to the runebearer.” Also, the slowed condition from the invocation doesn’t list a duration.

AIUEN, THE ELF-GATE KEY: Okay, this ability can…kinda just remove an enemy from combat. Especially if the runesmith has sigil (since it’d be at least 7th rank , and thus permanent, by the time they also have this rune). As an extreme example, the runesmith could just, say, cast sigil 1 mile away on a rock that they then threw to the bottom of a deep lake with the intent to just send creatures there with this rune. So it makes it…really weird that this is a pure save-or-suck “be removed from combat” without the incapacitation trait. I get this is a high-level ability, but it’s still kinda against the design intent of PF2. EDIT It also basically allows for a free version of gathering call if the runesmith REALLY wants to dedicate that many etched rune slots for it.

My only real complaint is that I think a traced rune should last longer than “the end of your next turn,” with the runes’ effects being nerfed to compensate. Maybe not, like, lasting 1 minute—it could last 3 rounds or something—but as it currently stands it creates a weird action economy bloat of wanting to Trace a Rune on an enemy, be able to Strike that enemy, AND have enough spare actions to occasionally Stride, invoke, or do some of the other fun actions the class provides. The magus’s action economy bloat makes some sense, because their Spellstrike creates very potent effects that needs to have some balancing, but the runesmith’s equivalent effects (invoking) just doesn’t feel potent enough to justify the action economy bloat when you can only really invoke one or maybe two runes at a time.


KingTreyIII wrote:
Assured Runic Crafter is really powerful, but I don’t think it’s overpowered, just really really powerful.

...why. This screams straight up ribbon ability to me. You can just buy your runes like a normal person.

KingTreyIII wrote:
Tracing Trance: Okay, this needs to only be once per day or something, because otherwise it’s just way too good and basically the equivalent of a level 20 feat for most other classes, and thus becomes the must-take feat at this level. ESPECIALLY considering a traced rune only lasts basically 1 round.

Nah, it's fine. Not invoking in round 1 can be a significant loss, letting an enemy survive an additional round in many cases. It's also the only way to do a ranged rune plus diacritic (four total actions), or ranged rune trace plus stride plus raise a shield, etc.

It does allow you to Stride then trace three the three damaging runes in round 1, but that gives them the opportunity to move more than 30' away or knock you out before you get the chance to invoke. It's not pure benefit adding on an extra rune now for invocation of them all later.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

re:Ghostly Resonance

Very powerful, but very situational. The need for ghost touch really doesn't come up that often. This will be fantastic in the campaigns where Seer Animist is playable, and meh in all the others. (So I think it is a nice feat to have on the list.)


KingTreyIII wrote:
Tracing Trance: Okay, this needs to only be once per day or something, because otherwise it’s just way too good and basically the equivalent of a level 20 feat for most other classes, and thus becomes the must-take feat at this level. ESPECIALLY considering a traced rune only lasts basically 1 round.

Honestly this is my least favorite Runesmith feat because we don't have enough runes to in my opinion make it good unless you spam Diacritic runes which I think are ALL pretty bad, not gonna lie. I would rather Trace 2 runes and Invoke then Trace 4 runes and be unable to invoke any of them.


ElementalofCuteness wrote:
KingTreyIII wrote:
Tracing Trance: Okay, this needs to only be once per day or something, because otherwise it’s just way too good and basically the equivalent of a level 20 feat for most other classes, and thus becomes the must-take feat at this level. ESPECIALLY considering a traced rune only lasts basically 1 round.

Honestly this is my least favorite Runesmith feat because we don't have enough runes to in my opinion make it good unless you spam Diacritic runes which I think are ALL pretty bad, not gonna lie. I would rather Trace 2 runes and Invoke then Trace 4 runes and be unable to invoke any of them.

You can trace a pair of ranged whetstones on allies in round 1 (assume they will close to melee before your second round actions), trace a ranged fire or thunder on an enemy in round 2, then use your last to invoke and get three blasts that way. It doesn't all have to be stacked against a single enemy facing you.

The shield booster is also a good one to put on an adjacent or ranged ally in round 1. In round 2 your invocation gives them a free shield raise at +3 AC in addition to your offensive runes going off.


I also take slight issue with Traced runes only lasting until the start end of your next turn, but I haven’t quite solidified on the issue yet. My gut instinct is that making the duration longer requires the non-invoked buffs/debuffs to be much weaker, but then you’re incentivized to Invoke constantly, which means you’re right back to Tracing constantly…

Idk. I do feel like I’d be more satisfied with a 1 minute duration with weaker passives since I wouldn’t feel like I wasted a rune if I didn’t invoke it in time. Maybe even 1 minute duration or the target can spend a single Interact action to remove the traced rune?


n8_fi wrote:
I also take slight issue with Traced runes only lasting until the start of your next turn,

End of next turn.


Xenocrat wrote:
n8_fi wrote:
I also take slight issue with Traced runes only lasting until the start of your next turn,
End of next turn.

Ah, yes thank you. I had it right in my head and then typed it wrong in haste.


By the way, it's interesting question how one can dispose of etched rune. I etch Ranshu on some eidolon/familiar with lightning resistance, then use Transpose Etching and move it to an enemy which I can't defeat right now. And then flee away. That's it, he takes lightning damage every round he is not moving. See you in pair of days when you will be too exhausted to fight!

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