Why do some Monk Stances restrict Strikes and some don't?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

Grand Lodge

Apologies if this is something that has long been resolved, but why do some Monk Stances restrict your strikes to only the Unarmed Strike granted by the stance (i.e. Crane, Mountain, Stumbling, Cobra, Gorilla, Sky and Heaven Stance) while some don't (Dragon, Tiger, Wolf, Clinging Shadows, Ironblood, Tangled Forest, Wild Winds, Reflective Ripple, Stoked Flame).

I'm just curious why there is that restriction. Is it meant to balance Fuse Stance? But you don't get that until 16th level...


Stances which give you defensive bonuses require you to use their specific Strike as a tradeoff for the defense. Many are not worth it unless leaning into the Stance, taking the complementary feats, etc. Yes, it helps when Fuse Stance comes into play, but it's most likely to prevent taking a low-damage Stance w/ good defense then circumventing that cost with a high-damage weapon.

It's similar to how Fighters with one-handed weapons get access to many defensive options. They've paid for it in a way.

Also it's similar to how Stances that kinda break the weapon rules by providing a 1d8 Agile & Finesse attack (often w/ other perks) also require one be unarmored to enter the Stance. That's aimed a bit more at Fighter & Rogues that might poach those top-curve attacks, so they have to pay a price in defense to utilize them. In fact, the playtest Monk paid that price too w/ only Trained defense, but that was suicidal so Paizo bumped Monks up to Expert at 1st just to hold their own.

Personally I like the idea of a caster (or Kineticist too I suppose) picking up a defensive Monk Stance and not being hurt by the cost. And that's why I suspect why the Monk Archetype has high stat reqs!

ETA: All of this is pre-Remaster! Paizo may have changed something.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Martial Artist can get you the monk stances without all those stat reqs. You wouldn't be able to make spell attack rolls though which I guess wouldn't be that big of a loss.


The Monk stances, such as Crane Stance should only limit the Strike actions you can take. It wouldn't prevent you from using spell attack roll spells. I haven't checked all of them for that though.

There may be a case for some spells like the Legacy Spiritual Weapon, but even then it is the spell making the Strike, not you. There may be some other spells that I am not thinking of that have you make a Strike directly.

Grand Lodge

Castilliano wrote:

Stances which give you defensive bonuses require you to use their specific Strike as a tradeoff for the defense. Many are not worth it unless leaning into the Stance, taking the complementary feats, etc. Yes, it helps when Fuse Stance comes into play, but it's most likely to prevent taking a low-damage Stance w/ good defense then circumventing that cost with a high-damage weapon.

It's similar to how Fighters with one-handed weapons get access to many defensive options. They've paid for it in a way.

Also it's similar to how Stances that kinda break the weapon rules by providing a 1d8 Agile & Finesse attack (often w/ other perks) also require one be unarmored to enter the Stance. That's aimed a bit more at Fighter & Rogues that might poach those top-curve attacks, so they have to pay a price in defense to utilize them. In fact, the playtest Monk paid that price too w/ only Trained defense, but that was suicidal so Paizo bumped Monks up to Expert at 1st just to hold their own.

Personally I like the idea of a caster (or Kineticist too I suppose) picking up a defensive Monk Stance and not being hurt by the cost. And that's why I suspect why the Monk Archetype has high stat reqs!

ETA: All of this is pre-Remaster! Paizo may have changed something.

I own Player Core 2, so my questions were related to the Remastered Monk.

I'm not sure I fully agree with that view (mostly because Ironblood grants resistance to all damage and its Iron Sweep strikes has the parry trait), but it does sound like the most likely explanation.

Also, like Dragorine said, if you're a Caster wanting to take a defensive Monk stance, you're better off picking Martial Artist. Especially since the final feat for Mountain Stance (which is the best defensive stance for someone not actually looking to make melee attacks) can't be obtained with the Monk Multiclass Archetype.

(as for why it's the best: It grants +4 Item bonus to AC alongside a +2 resistance to Trip and forced movement. While it caps your Dex at 0, each additional Mountain feat increases the Dex cap and the Item bonus can stack with Armor Runes, Mystic Armor, and Bands of Force.)


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Finoan wrote:

The Monk stances, such as Crane Stance should only limit the Strike actions you can take. It wouldn't prevent you from using spell attack roll spells. I haven't checked all of them for that though.

There may be a case for some spells like the Legacy Spiritual Weapon, but even then it is the spell making the Strike, not you. There may be some other spells that I am not thinking of that have you make a Strike directly.

Ah yes. I stand corrected. I didn't read the feat description before posting.


As far as their original legacy, I think some stances do not need to add this kind of restriction. You go to Dragon stance for their attack as the main draw, and it doesn't offer much outside of that.

But other stances worry you will have good benefits, and they worry you will take that and go elsewhere with them. For example, Stumbling Stance, which is feint focused. They worry you will just use it to gain deception check bonuses some kind of dip.

Then again, there are stances that expect you to take their bonuses and run. Tangled forest stance was often used for reach builds to lock down enemies in your reach. But it is also a level 8 feat, which makes it too big of an investment for some kind of dip. It is a mid level culmination for existing weapon builds.

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