Additional Language Subsystem

[moosher12]

So, here's an old home rule I developed to allow for additional languages to be learned. It is supposed to work as a long-term subsystem.

Learn a Language
Traits: Concentrate, Downtime
You can learn additional languages by using the Language Learning subsystem. You must have access to a teacher who both can communicate with you in one of your languages, and knows the language to be learned. To Learn a Language this way, you must gain an appropriate number of Fluency points. Most languages require 30 Fluency Points to learn. Alternatively, you can learn the sign language of a language you know, which typically requires 10 Fluency Points. To gain Fluency Points, you must spend 7 downtime days practicing the language with your teacher; these days do not need to be consecutive. On every 7th day of practice, attempt a DC 15 Society check.
Critical Success: You gain 2 Fluency Points in your chosen language.
Success: You gain 1 Fluency Point in your chosen language.
Critical Failure: You lose 1 Fluency Point in your chosen language.

Special: As an optional rule: 10 points of Fluency would result in beginner-level communication, 20 points of Fluency would result in intermediate-level communication, and 30 points of Fluency is absolute proficiency with the language. As another optional rule: this activity can be an exploration activity, requiring at least 1 hour with your teacher per day.

[Perpdepog]

Why are signed versions of languages so much easier to learn than spoken ones?

[turtle006]

Perpdepog wrote:

Why are signed versions of languages so much easier to learn than spoken ones?

I read that as an additional charge for languages you already know, so it costs 40 points to learn a "new" sign language.

[moosher12]

As Turtle said, Signed Language is an expansion on a language you already know, without a feat tax. So you can learn, say Taldane Sign Language without having to take the Sign language feat, as long as you speak Taldane.

[Perpdepog]

Ah, I see. I was tripped up where it said "alternatively" when it should probably say "additionally."

[moosher12]

Good change suggestion, I'll probably do that for my home rule document.

[moosher12]

Changed the sentence as so. I kept "Alternatively" because "Additionally" could also be interpreted that you can learn a language, and a separate sign language, at the same time.

You can learn additional languages by using the Language Learning subsystem. You must have access to a teacher who both can communicate with you in one of your languages, and knows the language to be learned. To Learn a Language this way, you must gain an appropriate number of Fluency points. Most languages require 30 Fluency Points to learn. Alternatively, you can learn the sign language of a language you know, which typically requires an additional 10 Fluency Points. To gain Fluency Points, you must spend 7 downtime days practicing the language with your teacher; these days do not need to be consecutive. On every 7th day of practice, attempt a DC 15 Society check.

[Teridax]

I quite like this. It'd require an adventure where communication in different languages is important in order to truly shine, but those adventures exist, and it'd be nice for language to be something more flexible that can be learned in downtime to different degrees of fluency, as one would in real life.

I think this sets a solid basis that I'd suggest developing on in the following ways:

I'd probably have the critical success effect scale a bit like Aid, where the higher your proficiency rank in Society, the more additional Fluency Points you gain (so someone who's legendary in Society would learn languages at twice the rate of someone who's trained or an expert).

If anyone can learn languages in downtime, I'd perhaps change the benefits of increasing your Intelligence a little bit, as otherwise anyone could get similar benefits given enough downtime. Something like an extra 1st-level skill feat instead of the bonus skill training and language would be different and not too disruptive.

Similarly, I think you might want to look at Multilingual and adjust it so that it makes you better at learning languages, instead of giving languages for free that anyone can pick up. I'd also perhaps look at Legendary Linguist and hook it up to your levels of fluency, as the feat currently hinges on a degree of basic fluency that your system expresses in concrete mechanical terms.

You might want to think of what a communication subsystem would look like using these degrees of fluency in your mechanic. A check modified by your degree of fluency that might result in hilarious miscommunication on a critical failure sounds like it could lead to some fun situations in a social campaign.

And that's basically my two cents. Well done on the good work!

[moosher12]

Teridax wrote:

I quite like this. It'd require an adventure where communication in different languages is important in order to truly shine, but those adventures exist, and it'd be nice for language to be something more flexible that can be learned in downtime to different degrees of fluency, as one would in real life.

I think this sets a solid basis that I'd suggest developing on in the following ways:

I'd probably have the critical success effect scale a bit like Aid, where the higher your proficiency rank in Society, the more additional Fluency Points you gain (so someone who's legendary in Society would learn languages at twice the rate of someone who's trained or an expert).

If anyone can learn languages in downtime, I'd perhaps change the benefits of increasing your Intelligence a little bit, as otherwise anyone could get similar benefits given enough downtime. Something like an extra 1st-level skill feat instead of the bonus skill training and language would be different and not too disruptive.

Similarly, I think you might want to look at Multilingual and adjust it so that it makes you better at learning languages, instead of giving languages for free that anyone can pick up. I'd also perhaps look at Legendary Linguist and hook it up to your levels of fluency, as the feat currently hinges on a degree of basic fluency that your system expresses in concrete mechanical terms.

You might want to think of what a communication subsystem would look like using these degrees of fluency in your mechanic. A check modified by your degree of fluency that might result in hilarious miscommunication on a critical failure sounds like it could lead to some fun situations in a social campaign.

And that's basically my two cents. Well done on the good work!

Your input is very appreciated! I'll give them some testing down the line to see how they fare. For similar reasons to as you said above, I tried to keep the current draft of the system relatively conservative with granting languages, because the goal was to be in addition to the current system, not as a replacement. That is why I would hesitate to go beyond 2 points a week on the critical success, but seeing the actual feasibility is worth testing, just to see what it would look like, and whether there is more room to reasonably buff the learning rate. I'm not sure if a bonus for expert would be appropriate, as I tried to keep the learning length within real-world expected learning times, but I think Master and legendary might be deserving of testing a boost.

The Multilingual suggestion is good. I think a +2 circumstance bonus to Society checks to Learn a Language if you have the Multilingual feat seems reasonable at a glance.

The point on Legendary Linguist is a good one, I'll look into that. My current tactic was a more soft rule than a hard one, as it was mostly meant for my table, whom I can typically trust to self limit and act within the confines, though making a Society check to not have a faux pas for beginner level communication is an amusing one to consider. I'll likely play around with that, see if it is enjoyable player-side.