Are Kineticists affected by Stupefied?

[Fenenir]

The Stupefied condition says

Quote:

Your thoughts and instincts are clouded. Stupefied always includes a value. You take a status penalty equal to this value on Intelligence-, Wisdom-, and Charisma-based checks and DCs, including Will saving throws, spell attack modifiers, spell DCs, and skill checks that use these attribute modifiers. Any time you attempt to Cast a Spell while stupefied, the spell is disrupted unless you succeed at a flat check with a DC equal to 5 + your stupefied value.

The first half of the Stupefied Condition gives a penalty to Int, Wis, and Cha in much the same way that Enfeebled and Clumsy give a penalty Str and Dex, respectively. Just a flat penalty to Checks and DCs.

The second half specifies that any attempt to Cast a Spell needs to make a flat check or waste the attempt.

Then under Impulses it states that

Quote:

Impulses are magical, and though they aren't spells, some things that affect spells also affect impulses. Abilities that restrict you from casting spells [...] also apply to impulses.

So, repeating the title - are Kineticists affected by Stupefied, given that although Impulses are not spells (nor Int-/Wis-/Cha-based, for that matter) they are nonetheless affected by things that prevent spells?

[BigHatMarisa]

I'd say no, not only for verisimilitude (I am not using my mental scores for Impulses, therefore Stupefied shouldn't work on me) but also because Stupefied specifies the "Cast a Spell" activity based on its capitalization.
Stupefied is not an "ability that restricts you from casting spells", thus; it is an effect that potentially hinders the specific Cast a Spell activity.

[Fenenir]

BigHatMarisa wrote:

I'd say no, not only for verisimilitude (I am not using my mental scores for Impulses, therefore Stupefied shouldn't work on me) but also because Stupefied specifies the "Cast a Spell" activity based on its capitalization.

Stupefied is not an "ability that restricts you from casting spells", thus; it is an effect that potentially hinders the specific Cast a Spell activity.

Well, if we're talking about verisimilitude, then all Impulses having the Concentrate trait baked in should make it be affected by mental stuff.

But yeah, I have been convinced about the difference between "Cast a Spell" and "casting a spell" in the rule verbiage.

Sigh, yet another anti-spellcaster Condition the "no slot spellcaster" is immune to.
I swear, the Kineticist needed a few more months of playtesting...

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Yeah, using an impulse is not Casting a Spell. Impulses do not use Spell Attack Rolls or Spell DCs, so those penalties don't apply either.

If you are looking for a condition to affect Kineticists, look at the Drained condition.

[Squiggit]

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Yeah, using an impulse is not Casting a Spell.

I mean, agreed, but if Cast A Spell isn't casting spells I don't know when that feature of Impulses would ever apply.

[Easl]

Squiggit wrote:

if Cast A Spell isn't casting spells I don't know when that feature of Impulses would ever apply.

Impulses explicitly use Class DC, so that seems pretty cut and dried. 'Cast a Spell' is casting spells, but kineticists simply aren't using the Cast a Spell activity.

As to where the 'like a spell' text applies: will-o-wisps and other 'immune to spell' monsters are typically interpreted as being immune to impulses. So that's where. At least, that's what I've gathered from past discussions on the boards about impulses being spell-like.

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Squiggit wrote:

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Yeah, using an impulse is not Casting a Spell.

I mean, agreed, but if Cast A Spell isn't casting spells I don't know when that feature of Impulses would ever apply.

It would mostly apply for things like Anti-Magic Zone, since that is an "ability that restricts spellcasting."

Stupefied is a condition, not an ability.

[PossibleCabbage]

Stupefied does not affect the Kineticist when they are doing impulses and basic blasts. The condition that does is Drained.