I was just reading Player Core, and I noticed the description of Avoid Notice (p438) no longer has the rider affect from Swift Sneak and Legendary Sneak. The Core Rulebook had:
You attempt a Stealth check to avoid notice while traveling at half speed. If you have the Swift Sneak feat, you can move at full Speed rather than half, but you still can’t use another exploration activity while you do so. If you have the Legendary Sneak feat, you can move at full Speed and use a second exploration activity. If you’re Avoiding Notice at the start of an encounter, you usually roll a Stealth check instead of a Perception check both to determine your initiative and to see if the enemies notice you (based on their Perception DCs, as normal for Sneak, regardless of their initiative check results).
Emphasis mine.
While Player Core only has:
You attempt a Stealth check to avoid notice while traveling at half speed. If you're Avoiding Notice at the start of an encounter, you usually roll a Stealth check instead of a Perception check both to determine your initiative and to see if the enemies notice you (based on their Perception DCs, as normal for Sneak, regardless of their initiative check results).
I assume this is an accidental omission to Player Core?
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Let's see what we have: Exploration
You attempt a Stealth check to avoid notice while traveling at half speed. If you're Avoiding Notice at the start of an encounter, you usually roll a Stealth check instead of a Perception check both to determine your initiative and to see if the enemies notice you (based on their Perception DCs, as normal for Sneak, regardless of their initiative check results).Technically speaking, Avoiding Notice is not a Sneak, so RAW the Swift Sneak feat no longer interacts with this activity: General, Skill
Prerequisites master in Stealth
You can move your full Speed when you Sneak. You can use Swift Sneak while Burrowing, Climbing, Flying, or Swimming instead of Striding if you have the corresponding movement type.Legendary Sneak seems like it should still allow you to ignore the speed restriction on Avoid Notice if your other Exploration Activity has no such restriction:
Source Player Core pg. 258General, Skill
Prerequisites legendary in Stealth; Swift Sneak
You’re always sneaking unless you choose to be seen, even when there’s nowhere to hide. You can Hide and Sneak even without cover or being concealed. When you employ an exploration tactic other than Avoiding Notice, you also gain the benefits of Avoiding Notice unless you choose not to. See page 438 for more information about exploration tactics.
Technically speaking, I guess you could Hustle + Avoid Notice with the Legendary Sneak, but not just walk at your base speed and Avoid Notice...
It looks like at least one exploration activity speed boost still exists, but it looks like you still can't use it to exceed the 'half your Speed' limit as it only brings you up to that speed if you are searching thoroughly: General
Prerequisites master in Perception
You have a system that lets you search at great speed, finding details and secrets twice as quickly as others can. When Searching, you take half as long as usual to Search a given area. This means that while exploring, you double the Speed you can move while ensuring you’ve Searched an area before walking into it (up to half your Speed). If you’re legendary in Perception, you instead Search areas four times as quickly.
Offhand, I'm guessing maybe they just don't want people exploring at full speed anymore???
Offhand, I'm guessing maybe they just don't want people exploring at full speed anymore???
Yeah I guess that must be the case. I play a ranger. At 5th level I used to be able to cover tracks and avoid notice at full speed together (now need to wait until 16th when I can get Legendary Sneak). At 15th level I used to be able to also track at full speed (via Swift Tracker) with avoid notice (only one level wait to now do at 16th, so not so bad I guess). And with Hazard Finder, I could cover all the danger parts of the Search activity stacked as well.
So yeah, it's not a huge deal, and I'm ok with the change, just weird to do a stealth nerf (pun intended) when it probably wasn't hurting anyone beforehand?
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There is a fundamental flaw with the 'quick exploration activity' abilities in that they tend to force
- A) Everyone in the party to get such an ability,
- B) Characters without such an ability to not do an exploration activity at all (to avoid slowing the party down), or
- C) Characters with these abilities to not actually benefit from them (to avoid leaving other party members behind).
I'm surprised they didn't throw in an "aid others" activity instead, that let one character essentially spend their own exploration activity to allow the rest of the party move at full speed. It would've been an interesting way to avoid the issue, since it's flexible: Any one party member could give up their activity depending on what the group needs, or they could ignore it entirely when time isn't of the essence.
Wouldn't necessarily fix the underlying issue Taja pointed out, but it would've at least been worth experimenting with.