Soldiers are the worst class with advanced area weapons*.

[QuidEst]

*Kinda. Putting this in general, 'cuz it's also an advanced weapons complaint.

So, the advanced weapons aren't very usable unless they have the Professional trait. Taking a -2 at most levels is pretty severe. But what about area weapons? You don't need proficiency with them! So the advanced area weapons can be picked up by casters, Envoy, whatever, without drawback. I'm happy to have some of them be useful.

The problem is that the "not have proficiency" issue only applies on attack, and Soldier makes attack rolls with area weapons. So, unlike all the other classes, they actually get some penalty for using advanced area weapons- a massive accuracy penalty on primary target rolls. If anyone should be using a plasma cannon, it's the Soldier! Sure, they have a better DC than the other classes, but giving up one of their very few actual features to use it still isn't worth a small damage bump.

[Wellquest]

it is the playtest, so I assume this will be addressed. making Area trait weapons require at least trained to use their Area Attacks. My Shirren soldier will be doing Auto-Fire with the Magnetar, and I have unconventional weaponry, so my Primary Target attack will be fine (+3 to Dex)

[Teridax]

So, the title is obviously clickbait, but I do agree that there are implementation problems with area weapons that have been left unsolved, despite those problems having been brought up a year ago. There’s no real reason to go for simple or martial area weapons when advanced weapons exist and aren’t gated by weapon proficiency. Additionally, the Soldier’s a bit of a one-trick pony right now where they’re made to use AoE attacks even when there are no enemies close enough together to catch. AoE weapons need to be hooked up to weapon proficiency somehow, and the Soldier needs to start out with a slightly different array of tools, instead of having all of their power concentrated into one attack and one attribute.

[Wellquest]

Teridax wrote:

So, the title is obviously clickbait, but I do agree that there are implementation problems with area weapons that have been left unsolved, despite those problems having been brought up a year ago. There’s no real reason to go for simple or martial area weapons when advanced weapons exist and aren’t gated by weapon proficiency. Additionally, the Soldier’s a bit of a one-trick pony right now where they’re made to use AoE attacks even when there are no enemies close enough together to catch. AoE weapons need to be hooked up to weapon proficiency somehow, and the Soldier needs to start out with a slightly different array of tools, instead of having all of their power concentrated into one attack and one attribute.

I would love for Strength to be a better secondary stat, for Auto-Fire to have a feat for making it a line and it could be locked behind STR+2 or +3, or Using your strength to control your rapid bursts, getting to negate a number of creatures in your Auto-Fire cone up to Str mod+tracking so you can use it while your buds are in the fray or if you want to target creatures who are further away if you don't have the capacity or want to focus on a particular group (like backline spellcasters).

Something for Area fire so it can go farther than the range increment depending on your Str bonus, as you heft the weapon up higher and angle it more precisely. Even a Dex Locked Feat with an action to make a one-handed non-Automatic weapon into an Automatic Weapon would be cool and slap tremendously. there is already fan the hammer for using multiple area attacks, and Whirling Swipe for Melee to be an Area Attack but literally nothing to turn a ranged weapon into an automatic, which would be satisfying and open up the gameplay for the pretty shallow class.

[DMurnett]

Wellquest wrote:

it is the playtest, so I assume this will be addressed. making Area trait weapons require at least trained to use their Area Attacks. My Shirren soldier will be doing Auto-Fire with the Magnetar, and I have unconventional weaponry, so my Primary Target attack will be fine (+3 to Dex)

This being the playtest is precisely the reason we have to bring things like this up (ideally with suggestions on what to do). Paizo doesn't have some magical insight into the game and our experiences with it, they can only address something if someone catches and reports it. Like OP did.

[Garretmander]

Perhaps something like the gunslinger or fighter feats that give advanced weapon proficiency equal to full proficiency for a sub set of weapons?

[Karmagator]

Garretmander wrote:

Perhaps something like the gunslinger or fighter feats that give advanced weapon proficiency equal to full proficiency for a sub set of weapons?

Those have always felt awful. They are kinda alright from a purely mechanical standpoint if you have an advanced weapon that is a meaningful upgrade, but the difference is not very big. Also, waiting six levels just for a basic gun you want to use... not a great feeling. And to make it even worse, the other options only costs a level 1 ancestry feat for the only weapon you actually want or even multiple ones....

[The.Vortex]

As a suggestion how to introduce proficiency into area weapons: Why not go with how "Professional" and "Thought" already work - kinda.

"Tha maximum proficiency bonus your class DC can use for the save DC of area attacks is equal to your proficiency bonus for attacks with the weapon."

[Karmagator]

The.Vortex wrote:

As a suggestion how to introduce proficiency into area weapons: Why not go with how "Professional" and "Thought" already work - kinda.

"Tha maximum proficiency bonus your class DC can use for the save DC of area attacks is equal to your proficiency bonus for attacks with the weapon."

The problem with that is that then the Soldier (or classes like it) would have to become legendary in attack rolls.

[QuidEst]

My ideal solution would be tuning the advanced weapons down to martial, and just not having all the hoops to jump through for an extra trait- just use the space for more weapons that work for more characters. Save advanced weapons exclusively for weird things like Cardslinger that have alternate access built in, and have more cool, weird weapons in martial. If they need to be uncommon, that's fine- it's less of a barrier than being advanced is.

"Adopted by humans/adopted by gnomes/human is better anyway/is this weapon common in another culture/uncommon is actually easier to get access to" all just makes me tired, and adding on "Soldier can use it for AoE fine but the not for ranged attacks/just grab it on a caster/Kineticist" would be nice to avoid. It's going to be especially true in Starfinder, because there are so many ancestries.

[S. J. Digriz]

QuidEst wrote:

*Kinda. Putting this in general, 'cuz it's also an advanced weapons complaint.

So, the advanced weapons aren't very usable unless they have the Professional trait. Taking a -2 at most levels is pretty severe. But what about area weapons? You don't need proficiency with them! So the advanced area weapons can be picked up by casters, Envoy, whatever, without drawback. I'm happy to have some of them be useful.

The problem is that the "not have proficiency" issue only applies on attack, and Soldier makes attack rolls with area weapons. So, unlike all the other classes, they actually get some penalty for using advanced area weapons- a massive accuracy penalty on primary target rolls. If anyone should be using a plasma cannon, it's the Soldier! Sure, they have a better DC than the other classes, but giving up one of their very few actual features to use it still isn't worth a small damage bump.

Instead, they might want to add a heavy trait to the advanced weapons, and then give soldiers proficiency equal to their martial weapon proficiency in advanced weapons with the heavy trait. Or just give them advanced weapon proficiency equal to their martial weapon proficiency. (the oddness of their using some of the exotic weapons is not really that big a deal).