Wellquest's page

it seems pretty straightforward for what they INTENDED, even if pedantic nerds don't wanna read it that way. some good wording would be for the feat to be passive, and say "When you would reload a 2-handed area-fire weapon with 2 reload, reduce the actions required to reload it by 1"

But the intent is obvious and all of this weird speculating about the wording inferring strange and complex intent is making me go a little nuts.

To me, the Soldier's usage of Constitution in their feature list reads a bit like Gretchen Wieners from Mean Girls trying to make "fetch" happen: it feels awkward, there are better-fitting alternatives out there, and every additional attempt at trying to make it happen only grates further.

Specifically, the three major points of dysfunction in my opinion are Walking Armory, Fearsome Bulwark, and Primary Target: Walking Armory is basically there to make Con do the work of Strength, even though the class wears heavy armor, looks like they should be really strong, and nearly half their subclasses use Strength. Fearsome Bulwark makes your Charisma in Intimidation worthless partway through your leveling, whereas there already exists a feat to let your Strength make you more intimidating. Finally, Primary Target requires you to invest in Dex to not make awful ranged Strikes, even though the class is otherwise explicitly designed to dump Dex by wearing heavy armor and using their class DC for ranged attacks. It's a mess, and the end result is likely going to be a lot of weedy, low-Strength Soldiers with high Int, which while well-served by the Erudite Warrior subclass and their entirely unnecessary auto-scaling skill, I don't think ought to define the whole class.

Meanwhile, let's consider what a Strength-based Soldier would look like: they wouldn't need help wearing armor or carrying items, because that's what Strength covers already, and they wouldn't need a stat switch for Intimidation checks, because they can already plug their Strength into those with feat support. You could even just give them Athletics instead of Intimidation as a base skill, and let them opt into Intimidation simply because it's fitting for the class (this would also help Armor Storm Soldiers, who currently don't become trained in the skill they need to be actually good at their subclass's benefit). The only thing you'd need would be an adjustment to Primary Fire or to the base...

I am in complete agreement with you, they should be able to choose Str or Con, and whichever KAS you choose is what abilities can key off of. Primary Target should be Str or Con, and Str or Con should have more function than "how much can I carry?" (and health for con) I wrote a whole lot of stuff similar to what you did above you and it doesn't seem like anybody jumped on me, not quite sure why you're getting so much sass and negative attention for... checks notes playtesting and talking about your findings?

I have actually done some testing with the soldier, but only with the field test version up to level 5. Anything past there can be taken with a grain of salt.

CLASS FEATURES

Fighting Styles

- Action Hero looks like it should be decent with something like the Machine Gun or Magnetar Rifle that has a good ranged increment + automatic. Automatic fire has a few rules issues as current (can you use it if you don't have bullets = 2x the number of targets? what happens then?) that makes me a bit hesitant to actually say anything further on this.

It doesn't describe targeting (though starting closest to further makes sense) but this class would really like an ability to choose targets as long as another target isn't directly in front of you. something like using Con/Str, whatever the KAS winds up ultimately being (and also Primary Target's to-hit ability score)

- Cannot see myself taking Armor Storm
- Bombard still looks like a clear winner, applying Suppress on a successful save matters a lot for Overwatch, and just in general for getting your statuses down. Actually buffed since the FT now allies can just ignore your area fire rather than getting a +2, which makes it a lot better if enemies move into flank your ally.
- Close-Quarters feels like Whirling Swipe should be built into it.
- Erudite Warrior seems to be the weakest of the bunch, there's no upgrades for Oppressive Presence and one action to suppress one target doesn't feel great. I do like that the suppress is conditional on them not attacking you, but I feel like the penalty could afford to be a bit bigger for this. Something like "increase the circumstance penalty to -2 when you apply Suppressed, but when an enemy you Suppressed targets you with a strike or other offensive action they lose the Suppressed condition"

There really isn't much else to say on it that I haven't said before. Suppressed does have a feat to scale its speed penalty up now.

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FEATS

Just going to point out feats that are too good or too weak

- Overwatch / Soldier's Training is like a less busted version of Hair Trigger because it only applies to Suppressed targets, but make no mistake being able to (mostly) reactive strike against...

I think Fan the Hammer should be entirely different. Make it so that you can take an Expendx1 weapon, and make it automatic or area (line) with the caveat of spending the ammo as if it were automatic... also let Automatic fire just do either a Line or a Cone

There are a few instances of design in Starfinder 2e that strike me as rooted more in 1e’s design than 2e’s. This is one of them. Switching attributes on checks at 1st level clearly signals to a starting player that they can safely build a certain way and be good at those checks. Beyond 1st level, the switch punishes you for building your character to be good at the check it’s meant to be good at, while potentially bumping your check modifier significantly all of a sudden. If Fearsome Bulwark is really to be a mainstay on the Soldier, then it should be moved to 1st level, and the class should get something else at 3rd level instead (for instance, a feature that lets them Take Cover as a reaction to getting attacked).

There is a lot of MAD problems, especially early as Soldier. You want Dex for primary Target, Con for Class stuff, but you'd also be the most likely class to have strength compared to a lot of the other ones. even without close quarters. You still might be doing some front-line bashing and a nice flat bonus to damage goes nicely with that. My suggestion would be to make the KAS Str

And for a 3rd Lvl Feature, a strength/con based one where, when firing an automatic weapon, you should be able to disregard a number of targets equal to your strength plus tracking. A good way to bring this into a more even field is that you lose the tracking bonus to your DC for each creature you ignore past half your KAS, probably to a minimum of -2. You could ignore 4 targets at level 1 for a -2 DC, but then you're targeting who you want. I don't know how to tie that into an Area weapon, but it could use some love in that fashion too.

Cred-Lites (just called Lites) should definitely be a thing.

Bloed&Bloeder wrote:

If no ammo scaled, ranged combat would always be awkward with very low magazine sizes.

Unless you increased the magazine sizes, which is pretty much what I'm proposing. Universalize the ammo's costs, and leave the actual magazine size entirely up to the weapon, with a reload costing the same for all weapons that use that type of ammo. A machine gun costs as much to load as a semi-auto pistol, for example, or maybe a better comparison would be a machine gun and an auto-targeting rifle cost the same.

The real cost of ammo shouldn't come from difficulty to afford it, but the action costs of needing to reload your gun, since ammo is effectively just there to enable combat. Reloading and action compression around reloading are much more important IMO and help keep the game from devolving into everyone hiding behind boxes and blasting away without moving.

My issue here is some Automatic Guns (Magnetar) have Incredibly tiny mag sizes (6) and that implies you can only hit 3 enemies with the auto-fire at base mag size.

WWHsmackdown wrote:

I like Con soldier. Primary target being an off stat doesn't bother me bc the area damage is the main attack and that goes up to legendary. Primary target can be viewed as a second strike with very lenient MAP in that light. And this is coming from someone that is going to go for 14 dex 14 str on his playtest soldier, lol. Soldier spraying, getting stuck in, and taking a beating meshes pretty well with Con in my eyes.

That "taking a beating" aspect is why I enjoy Con for the class as much as I do. Like sure, it's not the soldier's primary shtick, but there are feats throughout that have a real guardian feel to them, and honestly I hope get ported to the guardian when it's released, and I like that. It makes soldiers feel tankier, as in they feel like literal tanks. They're big, armored, and lay down fire to scatter smaller targets or try to crack bigger ones so the other units can go in and finish them.

I'd rather see more class features lean on Con than not, personally. Give them the kineticist treatment and just let Con do more for the soldier overall.

This is what I Wrote in a Survey

We obviously also want to play big strong guys. We could allow ranged strikes with weapons that are 2 handed and have an area/automatic trait attack to use strength for the to-hit bonus? we are already encouraged to wear heavy armor and dump Dex. Primary Fire as it is now contradicts the mechanics and theme of the class.

let the Primary Target not cost ammo, I know it was like this in the Fieldtest and it wasn't that broken, but it's SUPER broken to make it cost an expend. It's your intention to lay into the primary Target in the first place and the fact that outside of specific circumstances, you can only target the creature who is closest to the aoe/start of the cone implies that the area fire was already doing the work. it would make sense that they take a bit more damage. If you don't want to make strength the KAS or offer Str or Con as an Option, I would suggest a bonus to the damage against the primary target equal to 4 times the damage dice, half on a success

I'd like the ability to leave some people out of my Auto-Fire AOEs, like my friends, or bulky targets in front of squishes. if I'm using the action-hero subclass, I'm better off taking a pot shot and running for cover than using Auto-fire. My solution is another strength based one. When firing an automatic weapon as the Action Hero Class, either innately or through a feat, you should be able to disregard a number of targets equal to your KAS plus tracking. A good way to bring this into a more even field is that you lose DC after ignoring up to half your Str/Con score, then a -1 for each creature you ignore, and it can go down to -2. so, effectively if you had +4 strength, you could ignore 4 creatures in the area with no tracking. it'd be cooler if you could use the better between Con and Strength (Hybrid class DCs/class abilities having an optional stat have been begging to be released, let them out.)

So, the title is obviously clickbait, but I do agree that there are implementation problems with area weapons that have been left unsolved, despite those problems having been brought up a year ago. There’s no real reason to go for simple or martial area weapons when advanced weapons exist and aren’t gated by weapon proficiency. Additionally, the Soldier’s a bit of a one-trick pony right now where they’re made to use AoE attacks even when there are no enemies close enough together to catch. AoE weapons need to be hooked up to weapon proficiency somehow, and the Soldier needs to start out with a slightly different array of tools, instead of having all of their power concentrated into one attack and one attribute.

I would love for Strength to be a better secondary stat, for Auto-Fire to have a feat for making it a line and it could be locked behind STR+2 or +3, or Using your strength to control your rapid bursts, getting to negate a number of creatures in your Auto-Fire cone up to Str mod+tracking so you can use it while your buds are in the fray or if you want to target creatures who are further away if you don't have the capacity or want to focus on a particular group (like backline spellcasters).

Something for Area fire so it can go farther than the range increment depending on your Str bonus, as you heft the weapon up higher and angle it more precisely. Even a Dex Locked Feat with an action to make a one-handed non-Automatic weapon into an Automatic Weapon would be cool and slap tremendously. there is already fan the hammer for using multiple area attacks, and Whirling Swipe for Melee to be an Area Attack but literally nothing to turn a ranged weapon into an automatic, which would be satisfying and open up the gameplay for the pretty shallow class.

I haven't seen anything in the rules so far that answers this question, so that should definitely be addressed.

But the most sensible (and probable) answer is that you can still use it. It targets as many creatures as possible with the ammo you have left, going from the closest. If there are multiple viable targets, you get to choose.

I would really like to be able to choose the targets in general if you have the Action Hero Fighting Style at least. I forget but I think there might be a feat to avoid teammates with Area attacks later on, but the fact of the matter is, at early levels you won't be auto-firing anyhow, because ammo is so expensive.

Also an Auto-Fire modification to make it a line up to your range increment (or double if you're using the Action-Hero Fighting style) because a lot of the line weapons aren't super great, and it would deepen the Soldier's gameplay by a lot without having to carry around extra guns and having to swap all the time. I get they have extra bulk to carry all their stuff, but action economy is something to consider

I feel like this should be something part of the subclasses so other classes can't poach it. Stellar Rush doesn't feel very good, like last night, we had a giant shootout at long range with a lot of cover ducking and so on. The enemies had seeker rifles with a range of 120 feet, but many were shooting outside of their range increment. I was playing an elf solarian at level 3, I anticipated some issues with getting close so I went for max speed, I had a 40 foot movespeed + 10 circumstance from SR, so I could move 100 feet with two actions, and 140 if I used all three actions.

Unfortunately, the enemies were *just* outside of that, and obviously they saw me charging across the battlefield to get into position, so they naturally decided to all focus fire me. I went down, and it took forever for my allies to do anything about that because of how far away I was.

The issue is, at such long ranges, you have basically nothing you can do as a solarian. Youre going to be shooting with solar shot at a gigantic increment penalty (though now I look at it, it seems you can't attack with it with increment penalty), just taking cover is boring, and your shield has 1 hardness.

I guess you could carry around a long rifle precisely for this... but thats kinda boring too, right? Like your whole thing is baked into this big melee weapon you can manifest but for 1-3 turns of combat you won't be able to use it.

Then if I did get close enough to those enemies, they were spread out enough that it'd take many actions to even begin to think to do anything to them.

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I really like, conceptually, some of the later feats that help with this , like Feat 8 Flicker Strike, Feat 8 Momentum, Feat 12 Covering Flare, Feat 12 Wormhole, Feat 18 Homing Mote. However, they come online *so late*, it feels like almost every battle is going to be a grueling unfun affair with this class in such a ranged system. It also feels like feats like these are *mandatory picks* so you can't do any other build.

I feel like some...

I'm of the opinion that your class's special thing shouldn't be your only thing. If you gotta run, shoot, take cover, repeat until you're in range, then at least doing so would bait some attacks your way while your AC is boosted, and you'll be providing some damage.

language of double draw are very confusing

Interact twice to draw and stow one object

should it say draw or stow

from up to two of your pairs of arms

does that means 2 arm or 2 pair of arm which is 4

should be 2 arm

it says up to, so you could swap stuff in or out of your inactive extra hands, is how I read it. which is very good for the whole theme of multi-arms, given that they don't feel too satisfying. I think if you got to choose which hands are active at the start of your turn would be very beneficial, either as an innate ability, or an Ancestry Feat, or even a General Feat if they specifically give Ancestry Feats to some multi-armed ancestries but not others.

Where did you get the Commlink from if I may ask?

They are functionally the same item, to be fair.

It didn't hurt my head because I thought "that's really stupid" and instantly decided to house rule that, when active, environmental protections do protect against those things. Some things, the corrosive atmosphere for example, could damage your armor but as long as it's still functioning they wouldn't damage you.

Also note "A suit of armor’s environmental protections last for a number of days equal to its item level."

So since all Commercial grade armor has an item level of 0 that means armor only has environmental protections once you upgrade it to Tactical grade. I don't think they intended it to be that way because the rules also state:

"All non-archaic armors, except those with the exposed trait, allow you to breathe and survive in a vacuum or in non-hazardous underwater environments."

I think the best fix would be to change it to "A suit of armor’s environmental protections last for a number of days equal to its item level. Treat 0 level armor as level 1 for this rule."

I also am of the opinion that the level 0 thing should be fixed, but 1 whole day seems so long. 1 hour per day per level seems fine to me, and makes you actually think about what you're doing in space and limiting your risky spaceship plays. I like a game that makes me think- Hence why I played Shadowrun 4e for so long, haha

it is the playtest, so I assume this will be addressed. making Area trait weapons require at least trained to use their Area Attacks. My Shirren soldier will be doing Auto-Fire with the Magnetar, and I have unconventional weaponry, so my Primary Target attack will be fine (+3 to Dex)

There have been some talks about what happens when you attempt to use The Auto-Fire activity with a weapon of low capacity, such as the Magnetar.

The Auto-Fire ruling is that the expend becomes equal to the enemies in the range*2.

I simply have to ask what the rules are here? Let's say you don't have enough capacity to hit everything in the cone, you can only hit 3 targets, but there are 5 targets in the cone. Do you hit the 3 closest targets, do you choose 3 targets, or can you just not use it, or some awkward 4th thing where you conjure ammo and still hit all the targets? If that 3rd option is the case, it is Hard nerfing the Auto-Fire Soldier subclass, since it increases the range of the cone. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, I don't believe the intention is to lock the use of Auto-Fire attacks to how many targets are in the range compared to your capacity, it wouldn't make much sense.