Can a 5 foot step be converted to a move action? Not move + 5 foot. Just "was 5, now is a move."

[outshyn]

So let's say I 5 foot step up to a target and start a full attack sequence. HOWEVER, the enemy has a feat/power that lets him tumble/move 5 feet away, even though it's not his turn. Because I did a 5 foot step, am I stuck with the gap? OR, can I say, well the 5 foot converts to move action.

Note: I'm aware that you cannot 5 foot step AND do a move action. But can it be one single move action, of 10 feet total? My question is, can I close that gap on my turn, if the first 5 feet has circumstances suddenly change?

I'm aware you can convert a full attack action to simply a standard + move, if something happens after the first attack to make the rest useless. So if you kill your target on attack #1, you don't have to take attack #2 & #3 on the corpse; you can leave the first attack as a standard action and then give up the full attack action, and move to your next target.

Does something like that exist when someone foils your 5 feet of movement? Can you keep going and have it be a move action? That of course would mean that you'd get AOOs. But if I'm fine with that?

[Diego Rossi]

No.
You need to take a move action from the start, and, if an opponent has a way to move away when you start your attack, you still end up not adjacent to him.

Note that you don't provoke an AoO because you move adjacent to an opponent, you cause it if you move out of a threatened square.

If the opponent move away before you make your first attack, Lunge can help, if he moves as a reaction to your attack, it is way more complicated.

If you can share what the opponent is using, it can be easier to reply.

[Melkiador]

Quote:

Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack: After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. If you've already taken a 5-foot step, you can't use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.

Officially, no. I don’t think it’s the worst house rule to allow converting the 5foot step to a move action but you would need to retroactively give the step the penalties it would have had as part of a move action. I assume this retroaction is why the rules don’t allow such a thing.

[Azothath]

so you closed with a foe and he got an immediate action to 5 ft away. Immediate actions are kinda rare. The other option is he readied to do so.

the problem is common enough, one of declaring actions then wanting to change your mind.
The trick is a 5 foot step is an optional free action with conditions, so the relationship/logic only goes one way, so you cannot covert it back into a move action. Consider you are doing a full action and the 5 ft step is part of it, thus you want to change the full action.
so NO, you now have a full action. many GMs would let you take a standard action and waste the rest of the action
That's what this hypothetical feat is for. The Step Up feat might be a counter. Consider it is just a one time trick now that you know.

What you can do is drop your weapon(free action) and draw another with reach using quickdraw feat. notice both counters involve feats The other thing is that parties involve multiple characters so an ally can now attack and you threaten some open squares. You can also choose to fight defensively -4 attack gaining +2 dodge AC. 'Total defense' means you cannot take AoOs and probably not what you want here.

[Diego Rossi]

There are several options depending on your feats.

With lunge you can start the full attack from 10ì away. After the enemy has taken his 5' step you take yours and continue the full attack.

With quick draw you can change your weapon to one with reach, or draw throwing weapons and continue the attack with them.

Without the need for feats, you can use a bow to make the full attack.

A friend can attack him, possibly from the opposite direction, so that when he takes the 5' step he will still be in range of one of you.

[Pizza Lord]

outshyn wrote:

So let's say I 5 foot step up to a target and start a full attack sequence. HOWEVER, the enemy has a feat/power that lets him tumble/move 5 feet away, even though it's not his turn. Because I did a 5 foot step, am I stuck with the gap? OR, can I say, well the 5 foot converts to move action.

Like the others say, you are stuck with it. A 5-foot step is a specific action and has results that are taken into account when called. If you use one, then take another action (like trying to attack), you can't then continue movement. This would be the case even if you just 'moved 5 feet' (not '5-foot stepped'). Say you have Speed 30 and moved 10 feet up to an opponent. You say you're going to attack and they have sanctuary up. It's at that point you fail your Will save and can't follow through. You can't then move 10 feet towards another opponent and attack.

outshyn wrote:

Does something like that exist when someone foils your 5 feet of movement? Can you keep going and have it be a move action? That of course would mean that you'd get AOOs. But if I'm fine with that?

Ready is the most likely cause for such a thing and is a viable tactic, especially one-on-one. "I ready an action to attack a foe that tries to hit me (and then 5-foot step back)."

Assuming the readier hasn't moved or taken a 5-foot step, when an opponent comes up and tries to attack them, they take their readied action to attack first and step back. Assuming the opponent can't reach them now, they can't be hit. Since a ready can interrupt an action, even though they haven't swung/rolled, the action was still started. They could swing into the empty square (most likely not hitting anything unless something else was there or had a readied action to move into it). Or I'd allow them not to actually attack, but the action was still started, just like if you start casting and provoke an AoO that interrupts and causes you to lose the casting, you don't get to say you didn't start casting, you still lose the spell and you can't just try and cast a different one.

The advice to free-action drop your weapon, then Quick Draw or draw (you have a move-action remaining if you used 5-foot step) a reach or ranged weapon and then attack is viable (assuming your foe stepped away before you began the attack, ie. their Readied acction was "I ready to step or move away from an enemy that moves next to me", which would provoke unless the movement was their own 5-foot step).

The Step Up feat might also work. While it might be debatable if you can do it in a round you already 5-foot stepped, I would view it more as using your next round's 5-foot step. Your GM may vary though.

[Azothath]

Azothath wrote:

...{edit}

the problem is common enough, one of declaring actions then wanting to change your mind.
The trick is a 5 foot step is an optional misc action with conditions, so the relationship/logic only goes one way, so you cannot covert it back into a move action. Consider you are doing a full action and the 5 ft step is part of it, thus you want to change the full action.
so NO, you now have a full action. many GMs would let you take a standard action and waste the rest of the action
That's what this hypothetical feat is for. ...

here the CRB went out of its way to avoid the term "free action" as that would cause issues. Ofcourse miscellaneous isn't a defined key/game word, LoL. Then it shows up under the table under "No Action"... yes... it's creative writing.

There is a similar issue with Ready An Action in general and its interaction with Swift action <eyeroll>.

as to your topic, it does matter what triggered your foes immediate action (threaten or an attack). You should have a full action or full attack (sequentially) left. Fight defensively, Quick draw Feat, are a valid option either way so review your options, ask your GM, and finish your round.
It takes 6-10 games to learn the ins and outs of the system. The magic system takes longer as there are many subtle interactions and tricks.

If you want tips on how to run a Magus or PC, try the Advice forum.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Step up looks like it would work. If not following step will work. Step up and strike would actually give you an extra attack.

[bbangerter]

Azothath wrote:

so you closed with a foe and he got an immediate action to 5 ft away. Immediate actions are kinda rare. The other option is he readied to do so.

the problem is common enough, one of declaring actions then wanting to change your mind.
The trick is a 5 foot step is an optional free action with conditions, so the relationship/logic only goes one way, so you cannot covert it back into a move action. Consider you are doing a full action and the 5 ft step is part of it, thus you want to change the full action.
so NO, you now have a full action. many GMs would let you take a standard action and waste the rest of the action
That's what this hypothetical feat is for. The Step Up feat might be a counter. Consider it is just a one time trick now that you know.

What you can do is drop your weapon(free action) and draw another with reach using quickdraw feat. notice both counters involve feats The other thing is that parties involve multiple characters so an ally can now attack and you threaten some open squares. You can also choose to fight defensively -4 attack gaining +2 dodge AC. 'Total defense' means you cannot take AoOs and probably not what you want here.

Clarification: In the OP they have not yet committed to using a full-attack action.

Character 5' steps, and starts a full attack. Enemy steps away.

In this case the character is locked into trying to make an attack - but a full-attack can always be reverted back to a standard and move if they have only made 1 (or 0) attacks (exception of course that some types of full attacks - manyshot, and a few others - do lock you into the full-attack). The move action left over could not be used to move, but could be used to draw another weapon, drink a potion, retrieve an item, etc.