When Player Core 1 (PC1) was published it included new rules for Long Jumps. To summarize, the result of a Long Jump is now determined by the result of your check and not the DC of the check (the DC is now static).
In Player Core 2 (PC2) the text of both Raging Athlete and Sudden Leap are mechanically identical to the Core Rulebook (pre-remaster). (And the Felling Strike option seems to only be Fighter now.)
The problem with Raging Athlete is that the DC reduction no longer increases your Long Jump distance. Instead it just prevents crit fails on the skill check.
The problem with Sudden Leap is that it says to determine the DCs for High and Long jumps based on the DCs for Long Jumps, but the DCs don't effect your distance, your degree of success determines distance. So you can only ever jump 8 ft up maximum with a Sudden Leap.
Was this an oversight? Were there supposed to be adjustments for these feats? Are the nerfs intentional?
This doesn't seem like it's ever been addressed. Does anyone have any information on how to handle this?
Sudden leap in particular is completely useless now.
Why would Sudden leap be useless? its both lets you do one attack while in the jump something you cant do normaly and dubbels the distance.
Also the static DC on Longjump is 15, and High jump is 30, so you defenetly also still get something from the text "determine the DC using the Long Jump DCs"
Why would Sudden leap be useless? its both lets you do one attack while in the jump something you cant do normaly and dubbels the distance.
Also the static DC on Longjump is 15, and High jump is 30, so you defenetly also still get something from the text "determine the DC using the Long Jump DCs"
It's useless because the most you can high jump is 8ft under the new rules. Under the old rules, the long jump DC determined your jump distance, so you could do the same with high jump and sudden leap. It's a totally different mechanic.
It's useless because the most you can high jump is 8ft under the new rules. Under the old rules, the long jump DC determined your jump distance, so you could do the same with high jump and sudden leap. It's a totally different mechanic.Why would Sudden leap be useless? its both lets you do one attack while in the jump something you cant do normaly and dubbels the distance.
Also the static DC on Longjump is 15, and High jump is 30, so you defenetly also still get something from the text "determine the DC using the Long Jump DCs"
Even using Preremaster Highjump you only get 8ft high on a crit.
my guess you understood Sudden leap wrong even preremaster.Sudden leap only lets you use the Longjump DC not its Success and Crit success parts. (its unchanged in remasterd)
Critical Success Increase the maximum vertical distance to 8
feet, or increase the maximum vertical distance to 5 feet
and maximum horizontal distance to 10 feet.
Success Increase the maximum vertical distance to 5 feet.
Failure You Leap normally.
Critical Failure You don’t Leap at all, and instead you fall prone
in your space.
Critical Success You Leap up to 8 feet vertically and 10 feet horizontally.
Success You Leap up to 5 feet vertically and 5 feet horizontally.
Failure You Leap normally.
Critical Failure You fall prone in your space.
The text for Suddeen leap is unchanged in remastered
You make an impressive leap and swing while you soar. Make a Leap, High Jump, or Long Jump and attempt one melee Strike at any point during your jump. Immediately after the Strike, you fall to the ground if you’re in the air, even if you haven’t reached the maximum distance of your jump. If the distance you fall is no more than the height of your jump, you take no damage and land upright.When attempting a High Jump or Long Jump during a Sudden Leap, determine the DC using the Long Jump DCs , and increase your maximum distance to double your Speed.
Special If you have Felling Strike, you can use Felling Strike instead of a normal Strike. This doesn’t change the number of actions Sudden Leap takes.
The problem with Sudden Leap is that it says to determine the DCs for High and Long jumps based on the DCs for Long Jumps, but the DCs don't effect your distance, your degree of success determines distance.
Like Nezly is mentioning, Sudden Leap only uses the DC for Long Jump.
Whether that means that using Sudden Leap to do a High Jump means that you can High Jump your roll result rounded down to the nearest multiple of 5 (like Long Jump) or if it caps at 5 or 8 feet (like High Jump) is ambiguous and up to the table to decide on.
One thing that I will note is that the way that Long Jump works is that the DC only determines the minimum roll that results in failure outcome. Success outcome and the distance that you jump is determined by the roll result.
Another way of thinking of it is that it has the DC 15 for failure result and the first success result of jumping 15 feet. Then it has a DC 20 result for jumping 20 feet, and a DC 25 result for jumping 25 feet, and a DC 30 result for jumping 30 feet, and ...
And you are getting which ever of the results that your roll qualifies for. That is the DC and roll results that are copied over into Sudden Leap when it says to "determine the DC using the Long Jump DCs".
Even using Preremaster Highjump you only get 8ft high on a crit.
my guess you understood Sudden leap wrong even preremaster.Sudden leap only lets you use the Longjump DC not its Success and Crit success parts. (its unchanged in remasterd)
So your argument is that it has always been useless? That's an odd stance to take.
So your argument is that it has always been useless? That's an odd stance to take.Even using Preremaster Highjump you only get 8ft high on a crit.
my guess you understood Sudden leap wrong even preremaster.Sudden leap only lets you use the Longjump DC not its Success and Crit success parts. (its unchanged in remasterd)
you framed it like remaster made it useless witch it did not, and also i never agreed that the feat was useless,
it not super good but it do lets you do something that is impossible without it, jump and attack while in the air.sure it will not let you jump up and attack a dragon 100ft up in the air, but it will increase your reach by 5ft upwards by using it.
So your argument is that it has always been useless? That's an odd stance to take.
FYI: "Agree with me fully, or the feat is useless" is a false dichotomy. With some elements of strawman logic.
Probably best to avoid using such things.
it not super good but it do lets you do something that is impossible without it, jump and attack while in the air.
Sort-of. See this other thread. It probably isn't RAW to jump and hit something while in the air without some special abilities like Sudden Leap. There may be houserules or other alternatives available.
i never agreed that the feat was useless... it will increase your reach by 5ft upwards by using it.
I think you and I have different opinions of what "useless" means. But I'll concede it does give the player another (really bad, imo) option to use.
FYI: "Agree with me fully, or the feat is useless" is a false dichotomy. With some elements of strawman logic.
Probably best to avoid using such things.
I was asking a question, as the argument as presented did not make sense to me. Neither does your implied assertion that I am discussing this in bad faith. You should probably avoid jumping into a thread just to make personal attacks against another poster.