Solar Dragons and Primal Fire

[Arkat]

Solar Dragons (Bestiary 4) get something called Primal Fire which means even things Immune to Fire take half fire damage from their breath weapon on a failed save. On a successful save, fire immune creatures take no damage.

Solar dragons are immune to fire.

As near as I can tell, all the dragon varieties are immune to their own breath weapons, generally speaking.

What about Solar dragons? Are they immune to a Primal Fire breath weapon attack from themselves or other Solar Dragons?

[I grok do u]

Universal monster rules wrote:

Breath weapons Some creatures can exhale a cloud, cone, or line of magical effects. A breath weapon usually deals damage and is often based on some type of energy. Breath weapons allow a Reflex save for half damage (DC = 10 + 1/2 breathing creature’s racial HD + breathing creature’s Constitution modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). A creature is immune to its own breath weapon unless otherwise noted. Some breath weapons allow a Fortitude save or a Will save instead of a Reflex save. Each breath weapon also includes notes on how often it can be used.

I would point out that it did not note it wasn't immune to its own breath, therefore it is immune to its own breath weapon. However, one can certainly argue that doesn't mean it isn't susceptible to another solar dragon's breath of primal fire.

I would probably go with immune to self but not to others.

[Azothath]

Dragon(outer, solar), Ancient Solar Dragon CR18
Primal Fire(Su) does not make an exception. As the dragon is a fire type it can apply Primal Fire or not to its [fire] breath weapon.
Channel Radiation(Su) is also a damaging effect of solar dragons.

As a Home GM do you want to fix that? hmmm, makes sense in a way as it mimics other designs as RAW is what it is. Clearly they are over-the-top dragons so I'm not sure it is necessary unless you have 3+ outer solar [fire] dragons in an encounter.

[Arkat]

I grok do u wrote:

I would probably go with immune to self but not to others.

I here you, but I have to ask, "In what world does that make any sense?"

How is a Solar Dragon immune to its own Primal Fire, but not immune to another Solar Dragon's Primal Fire? The breath weapons aren't any different, are they? Bestiary 4 doesn't say each Solar Dragon's Primal Fire breath weapon is somehow "personalized" anywhere.

Is there precedent for your interpretation with any other dragon, or any other monster for that matter?

[I grok do u]

Arkat wrote:

I grok do u wrote:

I would probably go with immune to self but not to others.

I here you, but I have to ask, "In what world does that make any sense?"

How is a Solar Dragon immune to its own Primal Fire, but not immune to another Solar Dragon's Primal Fire? The breath weapons aren't any different, are they? Bestiary 4 doesn't say each Solar Dragon's Primal Fire breath weapon is somehow "personalized" anywhere.

Is there precedent for your interpretation with any other dragon, or any other monster for that matter?

I should have rephrased that as my strictly RAW interpretation, not necessarily RAI or how I would rule it in my game.

As there are breath weapons that form clouds and pools, as well as possible abilities to reflect a weapon back at the dragon, a creature's immunity to its own breath protects it from those effects.
The rule says its own breath, not immune to breath weapons of its type. Compare to other effects: Harpy's captivating song which has the phrase "When a harpy sings, all creatures aside from other harpies within a 300-foot spread must succeed on a DC 16 Will saving throw or become captivated."
Gaze attacks, "A creature is immune to gaze attacks of others of its kind unless otherwise noted."
Stench: "All living creatures (except those with the stench special ability) within 30 feet must succeed at a Fortitude save"

If you think of this "primal fire" ability more akin to the "divine power" of flame strike or the "unearthly cold" ability of the winter witch PrC, it may make more sense that it can even overcome the solar dragon's fire immunity when it comes from another solar dragon.

Azothath makes a good point that (if I'm reading correctly) this can be seen as an add-on to the base breath weapon, rather than the breath weapon itself.

[glass]

Arkat wrote:

I grok do u wrote:

I would probably go with immune to self but not to others.

I here you, but I have to ask, "In what world does that make any sense?"

This one, for a start! Well, not breath weapons exactly, but the same principle: Lots of venomous creature manage to deploy their venom just fine without poisoning themselves, while not being immune to venomous attacks from others.

Even closer to home, human stomach acid is very corrosive. But humans do not have a generalised immunity to acid (as anyone who has suffered from heartburn will attest). Instead that have a stomach lining that is evolved to handle the acid, just like dragons have a mouth and throat lining evolved (or created) to handle the breath weapon.

[Unbegreiflich]

probably the same reason my flatulence doesn't smell bad...