Downtime Check Limitations in PFS

[Ravingdork]

PFS: Multiple different activities can occur in a single Downtime unit (8 days), but you can only ever roll once for a given activity in any given unit.

So, according to the above I could, say, spend four days crafting, then four days earning income. Each activity would be permitted a single check. Pretty clear.

I could also Craft (weapon) for four days, then Craft (armor) for four days. Each would require a separate Craft check. Again, it seems pretty clear.

But could I then also Craft (weapon) for four days, then Craft (same type of weapon) for four days? That's treated as two separate activities, and would require two separate Craft checks, right? (The end result likely being two weapons.)

So if my Inventor failed his Craft check to make a new formula with the Inventor feat, he could not continue that activity and expect to be able to make a new Check. However, he could just start a new activity of the same kind--essentially starting over from scratch--in order to make a new check, right? After all, it's a new distinct activity, not a continuation of the previous one, and thus would be permitted a new Check.

Am I understanding all that correctly? If not, where am I going wrong, and why?

[Errenor]

Thinking about what are different activities and what is the same is too hard. For your case there's something simpler though:
"Only one crafting project may be started during a Downtime unit."
Another thing, to use the Inventor in PFS you still have to have access to the formula/item*. But then you can just buy it not using the Inventor.
*Only unlimited item rewards give access to their formulas. You can't invent formulas for items limited by their quantity at all.

[Ravingdork]

It seems like you might be quoting rules, Errenor, but it's not all that clear to me. Can you cite specific sources, and better outline which parts of your post are intended to be rules quotes, if any?

Errenor wrote:

Another thing, to use the Inventor in PFS you still have to have access to the formula/item*. But then you can just buy it not using the Inventor.

*Only unlimited item rewards give access to their formulas. You can't invent formulas for items limited by their quantity at all.

I'm having difficulty wrapping my head around this part in particular. Perhaps you could rephrase?

[Finoan]

Ravingdork wrote:

It seems like you might be quoting rules, Errenor, but it's not all that clear to me. Can you cite specific sources, and better outline which parts of your post are intended to be rules quotes, if any?

It isn't rules that Errenor is quoting, but PFS policies. The links to lorespire don't work well, but that is the fault of the lorespire website. Scroll down from the link given to where it has the heading "Downtime Activities" and one of the restrictions that PFS adds is:

Quote:

Only one crafting project may be started during a Downtime unit.

So you couldn't start a Craft(weapon) for 4 days of downtime and then start Craft(armor) for the next four days. Nor could you start Craft(weapon) and then Craft(same type of weapon).

You could spend 4 days to finish a crafting project that you were already working on and then start a new one.

For PFS especially, crafting isn't a way to break the wealth curve.

[Ravingdork]

That doesn't apply to inventing formulas or other downtime activities though, right? I'm thinking not. Inventing formulas may function like Crafting, but it is explicitly not Crafting, and so that Crafting limitation does not apply.

Similarly, Earning Income or Retraining or whatever else are not Crafting, and so can be restarted multiple times as new activities in a single DT unit if necessary.

[Errenor]

Ravingdork wrote:

It seems like you might be quoting rules, Errenor, but it's not all that clear to me. Can you cite specific sources, and better outline which parts of your post are intended to be rules quotes, if any?

Errenor wrote:

Another thing, to use the Inventor in PFS you still have to have access to the formula/item*. But then you can just buy it not using the Inventor.

*Only unlimited item rewards give access to their formulas. You can't invent formulas for items limited by their quantity at all.

I'm having difficulty wrapping my head around this part in particular. Perhaps you could rephrase?

Generally parts of my posts which are intended to be quotes are in quotes :) Finoan nicely explained what it is and where from.

As for second part, it's not directly relevant, but still, Player Basics-> Purchasing Guidelines-> Formulas: "The Pathfinder Society sells formulas to its agents for all items the agent has access to with the exception of items that have a number restriction on purchasing them. Items with a number restriction, including Unique Items, are considered so esoteric that the Society does not own the formula and so complicated that it is not possible to reverse engineer the formula even with a legendary degree of skill. "
So, generally access to the item gives access to the formula, but not in this case. Which is not very frequent and mostly concerns some chronicles' awards.

Ravingdork wrote:

That doesn't apply to inventing formulas or other downtime activities though, right? I'm thinking not. Inventing formulas may function like Crafting, but it is explicitly not Crafting, and so that Crafting limitation does not apply.

Similarly, Earning Income or Retraining or whatever else are not Crafting, and so can be restarted multiple times as new activities in a single DT unit if necessary.

Inventing formulas is not explicitly not Crafting. So, at this point, I'd advice you to ask these questions your PFS GM or various Venture-people (Captains? I don't remember exact PFS hierarchy). But start with the GM. In this case we DO have authority (and I'm not it). And, well, it was actually wrong forum to ask in from the start. You need this one: Pathfinder Society

And in case of Earning Income I'd definitely expect this to work: "Multiple different activities can occur in a single Downtime unit, but you can only ever roll once for a given activity in any given unit." You won't be able to spend one day on a failed check and then re-roll for remaining 7. 8 failed days it would be.
You don't need these tricks for retraining at all as it doesn't require checks.

[Ravingdork]

Here's what I have, currently, for my Downtime notes.

They've changed a few times already based on feedback from this thread and elsewhere, keeping the original roll results wherever possible. (Originally, I had multiple Craft projects in the same Downtime unit).

Starting Funds 15gp

Character Chronicle #1 14.05gp | Inventor: kusarigama (Failure) 2 days | Inventor: kusarigama formula (Success) 5 days, save 0.25gp | Earn Income (Crit. Success) 1 day

Character Chronicle #2 14.05gp | Craft: explosive mine (Failure) 2 days | Inventor: explosive mine formula (Success) 5 days, save 0.5gp | Earn Income (Success) 1 day

Character Chronicle #3 13.95gp | Craft: explosive mines x4 (Failure) 1 day | Inventor: blast boots formula (Crit. Failure) 2 days | Inventor: blast boots formula (Success) 5 days, save 0.5gp

Character Chronicle #4 22gp | Craft: explosive mines x4 (Crit. Success) 9 days with Junk Tinker, save 4.5gp

Note that I have access to all of the listed equipment due to being an Inventor, or through boons.

Note also that I don't like taking things to the PFS forums anymore because they don't seem to like me very much.

[Errenor]

Ravingdork wrote:

Note also that I don't like taking things to the PFS forums anymore because they don't seem to like me very much.

Well, those forums are to consult only anyway. The correct way is through your PFS GM, they are responsible (or are allowed) for checking your downtime notes. And then they can talk to Venture-Lieutenant (Captain?) if they aren't sure. Or even higher, up to Organized Play Coordinator. My opinion is not very important, I can only read PFS guidelines and try to interpret them.

If you don't agree with your GM, then again you both start talking to Venture-people*.
There's no specific amounts of received/spent gold in your notes, and that would be important to your GM. Otherwise if Invent and Craft are indeed different activities it looks ok. P.P.S. Well, re-trying Invent the same item probably still can't be allowed.
P.S. * They are called Venture-Officers in the guidelines. And there's this guidance for GMs Dealing_with_Chronicle_Errors: " Check with your Event Coordinator, Venture-Captain, or Venture-Lieutenant if you are unsure of how to fix a mistake, or if you and the player cannot come to an agreement about a fair resolution. Remember that the game is supposed to be fun, so waste as little time as possible on drama and spend as much time as possible providing an exciting, action-packed adventure for your players. " Not exactly your case, but you get the principle.

[Ravingdork]

Thanks. As I play under multiple PFS GMs who will all likely make slightly different rulings, I'll likely check with the local Venture Captain first.