Full Martial Weapon Proficiency with Shields?

[Bluemagetim]

So right now this class doesn't sit right with me mainly because they have all martial weapons but really cant use them well.

I had an idea to limit them a bit but in a way that could allow better proficiency progression.
What about making them not proficient in all martial weapons.
What if they were proficient only in weapons with athletics based traits like Shove, reposition, trip, and disarm.

Additionally they could be proficient in shields used as weapons like with a shield boss, shield spikes or throwing shields. I would love to see them with full martial proficiency with shields as weapons and when they use them they add some of the above traits to them. (putting my bias out there, it would allow this class to be a cool way to captain America out if they could trip with a throwing shield or shove with a shield boss)

i would rather see them have a narrow weapon selection they can use well than see them kind of discouraged from weapons all together with a low proficiency. (when you get reductionist a bit a shield and free hand seems like their best option)

There are some interactions with weapons feat changes in the remaster that moved away from this kind of selective proficiency. but if they have all simple weapons, shields as weapons, and weapons with the athletics based traits that seems easy enough to implement.

[shroudb]

we fought so hard to finaly have weird "class unique weapon category" removed with the remaster.

i'd hate them to come back.

as for reasons: for the exact same reasons why rogue, wizard, and bard weapon proficiencies pre-remaster had to go.

[C_bastion]

I'm kinda hoping they consider making it so the Guardian can use 2 handed weapons with a shield, or a one hander and shield while acting as if they had a free hand for athletics.
Basically hold a shield for free.

[Mellored]

Proficiency in all weapons with the Trip, Shove, Grapple and Disarm traits.

Then they get scaling Athletics.

[Mellored]

shroudb wrote:

we fought so hard to finaly have weird "class unique weapon category" removed with the remaster.

i'd hate them to come back.

as for reasons: for the exact same reasons why rogue, wizard, and bard weapon proficiencies pre-remaster had to go.

What about increasing the die size of weapons with Trip, Shove, Grapple and Disarm traits?

[Bluemagetim]

shroudb wrote:

we fought so hard to finaly have weird "class unique weapon category" removed with the remaster.

i'd hate them to come back.

as for reasons: for the exact same reasons why rogue, wizard, and bard weapon proficiencies pre-remaster had to go.

I see the point of having gone that direction.

But if I am looking at this right the real problem with select lists comes into play most strongly for classes that dont have all simple weapons as a base proficiency.

is that right?

[Perpdepog]

Bluemagetim wrote:

shroudb wrote:

we fought so hard to finaly have weird "class unique weapon category" removed with the remaster.

i'd hate them to come back.

as for reasons: for the exact same reasons why rogue, wizard, and bard weapon proficiencies pre-remaster had to go.

I see the point of having gone that direction.

But if I am looking at this right the real problem with select lists comes into play most strongly for classes that dont have all simple weapons as a base proficiency.

is that right?

The only class with that restriction was the wizard and, while it was silly that a wizard could operate a crossbow, but not a metal tube with a trigger on one end, that was more filling in corners than anything.

I'd say it was more of an issue with classes who got access to martial weapons, but not all of them, with the biggest outlier being the rogue. Weapons like sword canes and, again, firearms, felt really on-brand for some rogues to use, but their restricted proficiency list meant you had to jump through weird hoops to be able to use them.
The same issue was bugging folks with bards too, I'm sure.