| Tottemas |
Hello, I recently saw this Vigilante Talent
"Turnabout (Ex) (Inner Sea Intrigue pg. 33): A vigilante with this talent can capitalize on any opportunities in combat. Whenever a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the vigilante by attacking or casting a spell, the vigilante can attempt a dirty trickAPG combat maneuver check in place of the attack of opportunity. If he succeeds at the check, in addition to the usual options, the vigilante can redirect the attack or spell to a new target or area the foe could have chosen."
and would like some clarification. I read the Paizo discussion of the book but didn't find what I was looking for.
Does "attacking" mean the moment before you attack or the entire "act of attacking"?
Normally you only provoke "while attacking" if you are unarmed or attempt a maneuver without the feat. That seems very narrow and unlikely to ever come up in a campaign. But if it's the entire "act of attacking" you would include abilities like those that trigger on misses.
Did the designers ever comment on this? I find it weird that the talent would only apply to very specific circumstances and provide no support or idea on how to get there.
Bonus question:
If I ready an action to disarm an enemy while they're attacking me, would they lose their attack or be forced to continue unarmed?
| zza ni |
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you also provoke when shooting while in melee, which would be an added option.
| Tottemas |
I somehow completely forgot about ranged attacks. That does open up a lot more opportunities and is achievable by any vigilante.
Redirecting a spell seems way harder than even melee attacks though. The caster would need to deliberately not cast defensively and you need some way to stay close to them, like Step Up.
Maybe you could sneak right next to who you think is a caster before combat starts, and steal a buff or redirect an offensive spell if you're lucky.
| Pizza Lord |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Does "attacking" mean the moment before you attack or the entire "act of attacking"?
In this case, it means the moment of attacking. If your opponent charged past you to attack another target, the AoO they provoke from you doesn't count as the attack part, even though it's part of what might be termed an 'attack' or 'attack action' (or full-round action). Basically, the point where the action occurs that would end invisibility (as a rule of thumb). If an enemy caster cast a touch spell and held the charge and then moved up to deliver the attack as part of their action (which is something Pathfinder seems to allow), the only actual attack would be them trying to touch and deliver it (though that usually wouldn't provoke in most cases).
Step Up would be a good way to stay in threatened range, or being hidden or invisible near them, or having a reach weapon (or being able to take AoOs with a ranged attack). A caster could theoretically trigger this ability twice if they cast and provoke and their spell was a ranged attack.
Bonus question:
If I ready an action to disarm an enemy while they're attacking me, would they lose their attack or be forced to continue unarmed?
I would let them choose whether they wish to not follow through (losing that attack action, if they have multiple attacks only that one is lost) or to continue as an unarmed attack, provoking if they don't have Improved Unarmed Strike. I wouldn't let them change the action. Continuing the attack would just be what they planned, which was to attack with their wielded weapon, so it's not changing the action even though their wielded weapon situation may have changed.
The only way I would have them lose the action outright would be if the attack was no longer valid, such as them using a reach weapon and then being disarmed or sundered and not being able to reach their intended target any longer. Obviously if he's firing his crossbow at someone and provokes and you disarm it, they aren't throwing their fist 30 feet.