Detect Fiendish Presence and Undetectable Alignment

[Lobosch]

Would Undetectable Alignment protect against Detect Fiendish Presence?

It Works Like detect evil, but It detects a Creature Typ like Detect Undead.
The creatur typ is outsiders with the evil subtype so there is an overlap.

Is there any Protection against detect evil that would not work against Detect Fiendish Presence?

Ring of Mind Shielding would be an option, to only hide the Alignment but not the subtyp, but the implication would be that the Ring of Mind Shielding would not protect a Demon from Detect Evil because it would detect the Evil Subtyp.

Angelskin armor would block both ( if less than 10 HD)

Edit:
Would Undetectable Alignment protect a Cleric of Asmodeus from Detect Fiendish Presence?

[zza ni]

Mind Blank should work against Detect fiendish presence. it's an 8th level spell though.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Detect Fiendish Presence is not detecting an alignment it is detecting a creature type. While most evil outsiders are in fact evil, there are exceptions. So, things that specifically mask the alignment do not block Detect Fiendish Presence, unless it also masks the creature type.

There are a few spells besides Mindblank that will work. Misdirection would show you as being of the creature type of your target. Nondetection, including the lesser version would mean the caster would need to make a caster level check.

Those are not normally cleric spells, but Nondetection is a domain spell for the trickery domain, and its subdomains. Taking the trickery domain or a subdomain is going to be the best way for a cleric of Asmodeus to counter Detect Fiendish Presence.

[Lobosch]

Thank you for your answers.

Im perfectly fine that my Monsters and Npcs can be found with Detect Fiendish Presence when they do the common sense thing and use Undetectable Alignment.

Im just not sure if Undetectable Alignment would interact with
Detect Fiendish Presence and Detect Evil.

Resoning:
Detect Fiendish Presence:
"This spell functions like detect evil, except that it detects only outsiders with the evil subtype, as well as the lingering effects caused by their gifts, presence, and spells. ...."

-Detect evil can find all kinds of evils auras of creaturs, spells and Items.

- The Evil subtyp States: "Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has an evil alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is."

So i would think that Detect Evil would find the Evil-Subtyp, even on an Demon with Good Alignment.

This leads me to some possible conclusions:
(Im using an Sucubus with Undetectable Alignment example)

1. Undetectable Alignment hides the Evil-Subtyp so it would not show up in detect evil or Detect Fiendish Presence.

2. Undetectable Alignment does not hide the Evil-Subtyp, only the actual Alignment. Than the sucubus would be detected by detect evil and Detect Fiendish Presence.

3. Undetectable Alignment blocks the Evil Aura of the Aligment and the Subtyp. But Detect Fiendish Presence can Still finde Traces of the Lower Planes (the Evil Creatur Subtyp) and the Sucubus can be found by the cantrip.

By Logic of 3. Undetectable Alignment does not help the Cleric of Asmodeus because it detects the conection to the Lower Planes not Evil (which is strange, because that is what defines the Lower Planes.) Maybe it finely tuned for Fiendish Aura and can overcome the Brode protection from Detect Evil ...on the other hand, its a Lev 0 spell so it is probly weaker than a Lev1 Detection spell.

Sorry for the Rant, im just unsure and would like a second opinon.
I like non of the 3 possible conclusions

[Azothath]

Detect Evil:D1 takes 3 rounds.

[NonPFS]Det Fiend Prsnc:D0 so the nonPFS means this spell has issues or PR problems. detects only outsiders with the evil subtype takes 3 rounds, at 0th level expect spamming of the spell.
Evil subtype: This subtype is usually applied to outsiders native to the evil-aligned Outer Planes. Evil outsiders are also called fiends.
The spell is meant to be more specific than Detect Evil but the spell description in detect evil trips it up.

ADVICE: For your home game I would edit it to make that clear (possibly to "non-native material plane creature who is an outsider with the evil subtype (likely called, conjured, summoned, or gated) whose presence is detected on the second round and number and location on the third round but not other specifics") and maybe add a divining focus (blessed 2hnd dowsing rods $1, burning two sticks of incense $2 (in 1hnd or 2hnd) for 1hr or [60] uses, or two holy symbols of non-evil deities $2+) to make casting it a bit clunkier (keeping it Zeroth level) or just ban it.

[Azothath]

Azothath wrote:

ADVICE: For your home game ...

The minimum would be to carry the "outsider evil subtype" restriction into the detect evil spell description replacing the term "evil". I feel a round delay in detection going from First to Zeroth level is appropriate.

You can address the Undetectable Alignment issue in your home game edit.