For skills such as Craft, Profession and Perform, if you are given the class skill bonus in one of these, Perform (Dance), would the class skill bonus apply to all perform options?
It seems that when a class grants one of these 3 it grants the Class skill bonus to all subs, but some traits muddy the water.
Do you have a specific case? I feel like I'm misreading what you wrote.
I think what you are asking is if you gain the bonus for class skill on skills you don’t have ranks in. For example, if you have a points in perform(dance) do you get the bonus on perform(oratory). The answer to that is no.
Under skill check it has three categories Untrained, Trained, and Trained Class Skill. Your roll for untrained never gets the class skill bonus, all you get is the ability modifier and any racial modifiers. There is no category for untrained class skill.
In a character sheet and in the rules, the Craft, Perform, Profession, (and Artistry and Lore skills) are listed once but basically treat these as potentially infinitely many different skills all based on what you are exactly doing. If your class(es) are proficient with a skill, you are proficient will all possible subskills of that skill, but just because you are trained in one of those subskills that you are proficient with, enabling the +3 CS bonus, does not mean you a re trained in every other version of those subskills.
A specific case would be a vanilla fighter (for whom perform is not a class skill ordinarily) takes the obnoxious trait.
this allows them to chose a single perform skill from a choice of 4 types - they gain a +1 bonus and gain a class skill
the +1 to a single choice is always true, even untrained.
if a rank gets added to the chosen performance type it becomes trained and gains the +3 class skill bonus.
would that also make perform (dance) eligible for the +3 if the fighter took a rank in dance?
my logical basis is that when a class gains perform as a class skill they gain that potential +3 benefit to all performance types, they aren't each listed separately in the class descriptions. (obviously that benefit only accrues once a rank is taken in each type - but the potential benefit is there for all types)
essentially the question is, for the purposes of "gaining a class skill", is perform 1 option or 9?
this seems to be essentially the same question if applied to profession and craft (though not knowledge as those are always named individually or explicitly "all")
Choose Perform (act), Perform (comedy), Perform (oratory), or Perform (sing); you gain a +1 trait bonus on checks with the chosen skill and gain it as a class skill.
The bonuses and class skill only apply to the chosen type of performance
this isn't about getting free ranks.
it's simply,
when you get perform (xxx) as a Class skill, does that mean perform (any) is a class skill for you now?
(with all the usual requirements to put a rank in to count as trained and to get the class skill bonus).
Clearly the explicit text in the trait can be read to exclude all others but is that how the game rules work?
it isn't how it works for all classes that gain perform as a class skill.
look at the text for the Savant trait which just grants perform as a class skill.
it doesn't state any one, group of, or all perform skills - simply perform is a class skill.
this is an ambiguous area at a minimum.
I would rule that if it calls out a specific "(xxx)" subskill, then you are not getting all versions of the same skill's subskills. Just that one mentioned.
The trait gives you what it says. If it says that you get a +1 to the chosen skill and the gain the chosen skill as a class skill that does not make any other skill a class skill. There are a lot of classes that have specific knowledge skills as a class skill that does not mean all knowledge skills are class skills unless the description of the class says that all knowledge skills are class skills.
It is going to depend of the description of the trait. Obnoxious only makes the one perform skill a class skill, but the Trait Talented on the other hand specifies that all perform skills are class skills. Considering both are social traits and neither has any restrictions on it I would simply have the character take talented and not even bother with obnoxious.
look at the text for the Savant trait which just grants perform as a class skill.
it doesn't state any one, group of, or all perform skills - simply perform is a class skill.
Choose a performance type. You gain a +2 trait bonus on all Perform checks made using that performance type. Perform is always a class skill for you.
I would read "Perform is always a class skill for you" as meaning that all Perform subskills are class skills, because it says "Perform," not "Perform (x)" or "That performance type."
That interpretation seems balanced with the host of traits that give you a +1 bonus to a skill, and make that skill always a class skill. Most such traits apply to skills that don't have subskills, so in this case, the bonus to one single subskill is slightly higher. Gaining the class skill bonus on all the subskills is a very nice bonus, but you still have to spend a limited resource--skill ranks--to be trained in each subskill, so IMO it isn't too unbalancing.
If we are going strictly by RAW you have to look at the description of the feature making it a class skill. If the description states, the base skill (performance in this case) becomes a class skill than it does. If it states, the specific skill becomes a class skill only that skill becomes a class skill. There are a lot of things that alter class skills including knowledge and even performance skill. Those things only grant the specific knowledge or performance skill as a class skill.
For example, the reformation inquisition makes perform (oratory) a class skill and allows the inquisitor to use his wisdom bonus instead of his charisma bonus on perform (oratory). An inquisitor with the reformation inquisition does not get perform (act) as a class skill. Obnoxious states “Choose Perform (act), Perform (comedy), Perform (oratory), or Perform (sing); you gain a +1 trait bonus on checks with the chosen skill and gain it as a class skill.”. Many archetypes also make specific knowledge skills class skills. Those archetypes do not make all knowledge skills class skills.
In the case of obnoxious allowing, it to do so would not cause any problems. There are actually a few other traits like talented actually does state that all performance skills become class skills. In the case of performance skills, it does not really matter. But knowledge skills can be a lot more useful and those do matter. Making this a general rule would mean traits that make a specific knowledge skill a class skill make all knowledge skills class skills. That would actually make a difference. Obnoxious is a redundant trait anyways, just eliminate it and use Talented.