Question regarding taking an Archetype with the restriction that you cannot take another Archetype Dedication until you select two additional feats from your current archetype.
If that Archetype has additional feats listed, but you already have that feat does it count towards your two additional feats requirements?
Example, you are a fighter and take Point Blank Stance at level 1. At level 2, you take Assisting Shot. You are in a game using the Free Archetype rule and select the Archer Dedication at level 2. Since both Point Blank Stance and Assisting Shot are on the Archer feat list (although selected as a fighter) have you "fulfilled" your Dedication requirement at level 2?
Can you then pick a new Archetype Dedication at level 4?
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The relevant rule is:
Additional Feats
Source Advanced Player's Guide pg. 149 2.0
Some archetypes allow other feats beyond those in their entry. These are typically class feats, such as fighter feats that represent certain combat styles. The list of additional feats includes the feat's name, its level, and the page number where it appears. You can take the feat as an archetype feat of that level, meaning it counts toward the number of feats required by the archetype's dedication feat. When selected this way, a feat that normally has a class trait doesn't have that class trait.
So I read this as a no. Point Blank Stance is either a level 1 Fighter feat, or a level 4 Archer feat. But it can't be both at the same time.
While Gortle's ruling does seem RAW, 100% ask your GM to allow it.
That "need two additional Feats" thing is a universal safety valve for balance concerns, and as a universal, there's lot of times when it's not really needed IMO.
And instead of breaking the lockout, you just need to have the same Feat count toward it. Especially when you could have just rejiggered your build plan to take the Archer version of that Feat instead, is a really small bit of GM fiat they may be fine with.
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Be warned that allowing fighter feats to count toward fulfilling the "two additional artifact feats" requirement before selecting another archetype with the free archetype variant will allow something like:
1st- Point Blank Shot
2nd- Assisting Shot, Archer Dedication
4th- Double Shot, Quick Shot
6th- Triple Shot, Eldritch Archer Dedication (Occult)
8th- Basic Eldritch Archer Spellcasting, Magic Arrow
10th- Felling Strike, Shadowdancer Dedication
12th- Expert Eldritch Archer Spellcasting, Shadow Magic (Shadow Jump)
14th- Seeker Arrow, Shadow Power
15th- use Improved Flexibility for Stance Savant
16th- Multishot Stance, Sense the Unseen
18th- Arrow of Death, Master Eldritch Archer Spellcasting
20th- Weapon Supremacy, Impossible Volley
Be warned that allowing fighter feats to count toward fulfilling the "two additional artifact feats" requirement before selecting another archetype with the free archetype variant will allow something like:
Of course that is exactly what some people would consider an absolute win.
And given how much care the devs took to make sure that feats and archetypes are sidegrades rather then straight upgrades, this is not necessarily throwing balance out of whack that much. Might even help a 3 or maybe 2 person party to 'meet expectations'.As long as the whole table is on the same page about that sort of thing that is.
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Be warned that allowing fighter feats to count toward fulfilling the "two additional artifact feats" requirement before selecting another archetype with the free archetype variant will allow something like:Of course that is exactly what some people would consider an absolute win.
And given how much care the devs took to make sure that feats and archetypes are sidegrades rather then straight upgrades, this is not necessarily throwing balance out of whack that much. Might even help a 3 or maybe 2 person party to 'meet expectations'.As long as the whole table is on the same page about that sort of thing that is.
Helping a 3 person party to meet expectations (set for a 4 person party I guess) is definitely a power upgrade. Something like a level+1 AFAICT.