How should Upstage be run?


Rules Discussion


The Celebrity archetype adds the Upstage reaction, which is as follows

Upstage wrote:
Activate reaction; Trigger: A foe attempts a skill check and doesn't get a critical success; Effect After your foe has tried their best, you show everyone how it's really done. Attempt a check using the same skill that triggered this reaction.

So like... what does the celebrity actually *do* here? If an enemy goblin does an adequate long jump, does the reaction allow the celebrity to follow suit with a Long Jump of their own? Does the celebrity just sort of pose athletically? Can the celebrity instead do a high jump?

I'm of the opinion that it *should* let the celebrity do a jump of their own, but the reaction doesn't read that permissively - it just says to check with the same skill. I don't like the fiction of someone being upstaged by someone basically accomplishing nothing, though. And at the same time, if the rules are read "creatively" enough to allow the celebrity to do a jump, there's no accompanying limits beyond using the same skill. If the goblin from before does that sick hop, nothing in-text would prevent the celebrity from grappling a nearby foe.

Thoughts?

Grand Lodge

Neither, they do not get a free action, just make a skill check. This could be flavored however desired, but wouldn't change positioning, or have any game effect other than those specifically listed in the feat
The full text of the ability clarifies the effect:

archives of nethys wrote:


Activate [reaction] Upstage Trigger A foe attempts a skill check and doesn't get a critical success; Effect After your foe has tried their best, you show everyone how it's really done. Attempt a check using the same skill that triggered this reaction.

Critical Success You gain a +1 status bonus to attack rolls, Perception checks, saving throws, and skill checks until the end of your next turn.
Success As critical success, except you gain the benefits only if the triggering creature failed their skill check.

You attempt a skill check using the same skill they used. If you get a crit success you gain the bonus to attack rolls, perception, saves, and skill checks as above.

note that it doesn't list the DC for this check, but I would assume it to be the seem one as the foe attempted.


Jared Walter 356 wrote:

Neither, they do not get a free action, just make a skill check. This could be flavored however desired, but wouldn't change positioning, or have any game effect other than those specifically listed in the feat

The full text of the ability clarifies the effect:
archives of nethys wrote:


Activate [reaction] Upstage Trigger A foe attempts a skill check and doesn't get a critical success; Effect After your foe has tried their best, you show everyone how it's really done. Attempt a check using the same skill that triggered this reaction.

Critical Success You gain a +1 status bonus to attack rolls, Perception checks, saving throws, and skill checks until the end of your next turn.
Success As critical success, except you gain the benefits only if the triggering creature failed their skill check.

You attempt a skill check using the same skill they used. If you get a crit success you gain the bonus to attack rolls, perception, saves, and skill checks as above.

note that it doesn't list the DC for this check, but I would assume it to be the seem one as the foe attempted.

One problem is without an action to pare it with nothing defines the DC for the check.


Captain Morgan wrote:

One problem is without an action to pare it with nothing defines the DC for the check.

I would assume that it also uses the same DC as the triggering check. As well as the skill of the triggering check.

With that, mechanically the feat works fine. As a reaction, attempt the same check that an enemy just made (and against the same DC). If you succeed and succeed better than they did, you get a bonus.

Narratively, I am not sure why it is described and flavored the way that it is. The Celebrity character isn't really doing much of anything narratively.

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