Conceal Spell, the Subtle trait, and Possession

[Hama the Wandering Witch]

If I cast possession on a creature and they Succeed at their save, and I become a possessing "rider" as a result, can I use Conceal Spell to cast from their body, since I have no need for gestures or incantations?

If my host is killed and I fail my save to avoid becoming paralyzed upon returning to my body, can I then use Conceal Spell (or spells with the Subtle trait) to cast even though I can't move?

Also, if I am possessing a weak body, such as that of a squirrel, and it takes damage in excess of its hit point total, do I take half the total damage as mental damage, or only half the host's hit points as mental damage?

[Gortle]

You can cast unless the spell requires a focus that you don't have on the body. Or the GM dreams up some reason to stop you.

Conceal Spell simplifies the incantantions and gestures so they are less noticable. But those still exist so you need to be able to speak and make gestures still.

So Yes and No are my answers.

[Hama the Wandering Witch]

So if I possess something innocuous, such as a squirrel, I can cast Subtle spells as a squirrel? (Note that the Player Core glossary says Subtle spells do not need incantations, so I don't need to speak.)

[Errenor]

Hama the Wandering Witch wrote:

So if I possess something innocuous, such as a squirrel, I can cast Subtle spells as a squirrel? (Note that the Player Core glossary says Subtle spells do not need incantations, so I don't need to speak.)

Let's read:

posession trait wrote:

A possessor loses the benefits of any of its active spells or abilities that affect its physical body, though it gains the benefits of the target’s active spells and abilities that affect their body. A possessor can use any of the target’s abilities that are purely physical, and it can’t use any of its own abilities except spells and purely mental abilities. The GM decides whether an ability is purely physical or purely mental. A possessor uses the target’s attack modifier, AC, Fortitude save, Reflex save, Perception, and physical skills, and its own Will save, mental skills, spell attack modifier, and spell DC; benefits of invested items apply where relevant (the possessor’s invested items apply when using its own values, and the target’s invested items apply when using the target’s values). A possessor gains no benefit from casting spells that normally affect only the caster, since it isn’t in its own body.

The possessor must use its own actions to make the possessed creature act.
If a possessor reaches 0 Hit Points through any combination of damage to its true body and mental damage from the possession, it is knocked out as normal and the possession immediately ends. If the target reaches 0 Hit Points first, the possessor can either fall unconscious with the body and continue the possession or end the effect as a free action and return to its body. If the target dies, the possession ends immediately, and the possessor is stunned for 1 minute.

It seems you can.

[Xenocrat]

Gortle wrote:

Conceal Spell simplifies the incantantions and gestures so they are less noticable. But those still exist so you need to be able to speak and make gestures still.

While the Conceal Spell feats have Paizo's usual level of editing craftsmanship when it comes to flavor text muddying things, the Subtle trait definition is explicit that it removes incantations (and "obvious" manifestations) entirely. Only some level of gestures appear to actually remain.

[Gortle]

Xenocrat wrote:

Gortle wrote:

Conceal Spell simplifies the incantantions and gestures so they are less noticable. But those still exist so you need to be able to speak and make gestures still.

While the Conceal Spell feats have Paizo's usual level of editing craftsmanship when it comes to flavor text muddying things, the Subtle trait definition is explicit that it removes incantations (and "obvious" manifestations) entirely. Only some level of gestures appear to actually remain.

OK I guess that is the correct way to go.

The very annoying rules habit - of modifying details that appear complete with specifics in separate sections - continues in the remaster.