If you used it at the max range of 120ft can you still move them on a failure beyond the max range of the spell? Can you force them to move straight up as well?
If you used it at the max range of 120ft can you still move them on a failure beyond the max range of the spell? Can you force them to move straight up as well?
There's a lot of spells with this sort of question, even just something like casting Scatter Scree w/ the first square at max rang, can the 2nd be out of range, ect.
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IMO the easy blanket rule is that yes, unless a spell says otherwise, the listed range is the range in which you can activate/evoke the magical effect, which can then surge beyond it.
Iirc there's other line spells that make this default more obviously a good idea, but I'm mostly an Alchemist so idk, grain of salt and all that.
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If you want anything specific, like that straight up question, you may need to share the spell text.
Firm disagree w/ Errenor this time. If you meet the target condition and that's what the effect says happens, then it happens.
Relevant page on AoN
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=286
The example case to paint the picture is an emanation burst spell, like Fireball.
You can target an emanation to begin/erupt from anywhere within your range & LoS.
After the spell has been cast, the effect of that spell can expand beyond your targeting range. The flames do not hit a magic wall and evaporate just because you could not manifest the fireball that far away.
IMO, this is the default assumption, and a spell needs specific text to indicate if that behavior is not allowed.
If a spell says you target someone w/in X range, then you can target them and get the listed effect.
It does not matter if part of that effect is to move said creature outside of your targeting range unless the spell is sustained or something, which will only prevent you from sustaining/refreshing, ect.
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Think of it like weaving the magic to ready the cast, then once cast, the blob of magic is able to jet outside your cast range no problem, like a deflating balloon.
Firm disagree w/ Errenor this time. If you meet the target condition and that's what the effect says happens, then it happens.
Relevant page on AoN
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=286
The example case to paint the picture is an emanation burst spell, like Fireball.
You can target an emanation to begin/erupt from anywhere within your range & LoS.
After the spell has been cast, the effect of that spell can expand beyond your targeting range. The flames do not hit a magic wall and evaporate just because you could not manifest the fireball that far away.
But your own link says right at the top:
Spells with a range can affect targets, create areas, or make things appear only within that range.
520 feet away is clearly not within a fireball's range of 500 feet, so it can't create an area there.
Firm disagree w/ Errenor this time. If you meet the target condition and that's what the effect says happens, then it happens.
Relevant page on AoN
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=286
The example case to paint the picture is an emanation burst spell, like Fireball.
You can target an emanation to begin/erupt from anywhere within your range & LoS.
After the spell has been cast, the effect of that spell can expand beyond your targeting range. The flames do not hit a magic wall and evaporate just because you could not manifest the fireball that far away.
But your own link says right at the top:
Spells with a range can affect targets, create areas, or make things appear only within that range.520 feet away is clearly not within a fireball's range of 500 feet, so it can't create an area there.
You are not creating an effect at 520 ft. You are targeting the spell at a point within 500 ft, and it's prescribed text can effect things beyond the *target* range
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Another metaphor.
You are looking at the flower in full bloom and saying its petals are not allowed to extend beyond a line, when the game is trying to explain that casting the spell is planting the seed.
In some cases like Burning Blossoms, this is more literal.
Your target must be in your range. For Burning Blossoms, that means the square the tree grows from must be in your listed range.
The tree branches spread across a 30ft radius, and can extend beyond the initial targeting range. There is 0 reason to suspect you get a lopsided tree when casting it at your max range.
This spell in particular is a good example, as despite the cast range being 120 ft, any enemy that can see the tree attempts a Will save, no need to be w/in the 30 ft branch area nor inside the initial targeting range.
You are looking at the flower in full bloom and saying its petals are not allowed to extend beyond a line
Correct.
The rule you quoted says that a spell can only make things appear within a specific range.
So once you go past that range, the spell can't create anything.
You are looking at the flower in full bloom and saying its petals are not allowed to extend beyond a lineCorrect.
The rule you quoted says that a spell can only make things appear within a specific range.
So once you go past that range, the spell can't create anything.
Spells effect the world in whatever way the text says they do. Targeting conditions are the conditions required to bring the spell into existence. Targeting range is not a fence that contains the resulting magic.
You are not breaking the rules by making a fireball appear outside the listed range.
The fireball appears within the listed range, then blooms and effects things beyond the targeting range.
You are looking at the flower in full bloom and saying its petals are not allowed to extend beyond a lineCorrect.
The rule you quoted says that a spell can only make things appear within a specific range.
So once you go past that range, the spell can't create anything.
Oh, I get what the confusion is about this text:
"Spells with a range can affect targets, create areas, or make things appear only within that range."
This list is not saying all of the above apply to all spells, it's listing off different types of spells as examples.
Burning Blossoms has a listed range, and it can |make things appear| only within the listed range. After that step, there is 0 reason to think the grown tree might be half-formed because it's at the edge of the targeting range.
As the spell directly talks about affecting things w/ no range limit, it's a good example to explain that, yes, the branches can extend beyond the targeting range, the magic lure can pull people in from beyond the targeting range, ect.
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You've gotta think through as many examples as you can to see if your ruling works.
In this example, any short range buff spells to buff allies would break as soon as they took a step beyond the listed targeting range.