Using Scrolls in combat as a Thaumaturge?

[Ricka Draws]

So I'm working on a Thaumaturge, it looks awesome and well rounded if not op in all departments, I'll go for the scroll route for buffs and some healing, that's good but I can't help but wonder if is possible to use them more often in combat, I'm talking about action economy of course.

The idea is entering the fight with a scroll in hand and cast it on the first turn, a buff or maybe a control like wall of stone or something at higher levels.

Now... Let's say in the middle of the fight I need to cast heal or dispel magic for a scroll, is possible to alleviate the action economy of drawing it and then using it? plus the hands issue, I'll have a weapon in one hand and a implement in the other, scroll thaumaturgy let me hold the scroll even with a implement but... Can I draw it with both hands occupied?

I imagine the thaumaturge digging through her stuffs with his hand that also holds the the regalia implement looking for the scroll he needs, kinda silly
Not sure if I need to drop my weapon or implement to have a free hand and properly draw the scroll which I can hold with the same hand that holds my implement..?

So far I think that having a valet familiar is the easiest way to solve this and having a familiar is always funny

Thoughts?

[breithauptclan]

Ricka Draws wrote:

is possible to alleviate the action economy of drawing it and then using it? plus the hands issue, I'll have a weapon in one hand and a implement in the other, scroll thaumaturgy let me hold the scroll even with a implement but... Can I draw it with both hands occupied?

Yes. You draw the scroll with the same hand holding the Implement.

Scroll Thaumaturgy

Quote:

You can draw and activate scrolls with the same hand holding an implement, much like you can for esoterica.

[yellowpete]

You can draw the scroll with the same hand that's holding the implement. The other interpretation would be quite silly.

Methods of drawing scrolls more quickly: Retrieval Prism, Gloves of Storing, Familiar (Independent + Manual Dexterity), being a Gourd Leshy (maybe I'm forgetting one). Tentacle Potion (Moderate upwards) gives you one more hand to start out with which is similar to a free draw.

[Littimer]

I think Thaumaturge *looks* OP on review, but in play you'll quickly find yourself reasonably constrained if you're playing it all as-worded. I really like it, but wanted to give that heads up because I've seen a few fellow players now have an expectation mismatch from theorycraft to play. You're extremely versatile but also pretty fragile in terms of setup.

For instance, Implement's Empowerment is very specific with its requirements, and having a scroll in hand would technically violate the qualifications to boost your weapon damage. Opening a door necessitates putting something crucial away. Assuming all of your combats are not initiated by the party with a round of prep, I've found a lot of my actions in ambushes or time-pressure scenarios going to getting everything set up while allies can immediately roll into striking. If you're facing a diverse collection of enemies, you'll be spending more actions Exploiting Vulnerability, etc.

As Yellowpete already notes, the single biggest benefit I've found so far in terms of magic items is getting some Gloves of Storing. Having a scroll or implement stowed away is huge for the above.

Happy miracle working!

[aobst128]

I'll second the familiar with independent and manual dexterity solution. Worked wonders for me. Even with worse DC progression than full casters, a well placed heightened slow or blasting spell will do work.

[Ricka Draws]

breithauptclan wrote:

Ricka Draws wrote:

is possible to alleviate the action economy of drawing it and then using it? plus the hands issue, I'll have a weapon in one hand and a implement in the other, scroll thaumaturgy let me hold the scroll even with a implement but... Can I draw it with both hands occupied?

Yes. You draw the scroll with the same hand holding the Implement.

Scroll Thaumaturgy

Quote:

You can draw and activate scrolls with the same hand holding an implement, much like you can for esoterica.

Ohhhh that's helpful, I totally misunderstood it x.x

Will look at the prism, gloves and of course the familiar if neither of these looks appealing, flavor wise I mean

Also I'll mind the limitations for empowing and my "free" hand, I'm under the assumption that the scroll "burns away" when I cast from it, so using it right away before anything else should be enough to keep my hand free.

As for ambushes... Yeah they're very common so I'll walk around with my weapon and implement in hand, not too much room for opening with a scroll but that's okay, most scrolls will be for heal or some utility

Edit: common sense tells me that scroll thaumaturgy and gloves of storing should work together but... The gloves state that I need a "free" hand which I don't quite have as I'm holding my implements

So I'll go for a familiar! They're awesome anyways :)

[aobst128]

There's also the scroll robes if you don't mind being unarmored. (If you're a dex build mainly)

Might have trouble getting a scroll in them consistently though since it requires the crafting activity to put a scroll in them in the first place.

[Littimer]

Ricka Draws wrote:

Also I'll mind the limitations for empowing and my "free" hand, I'm under the assumption that the scroll "burns away" when I cast from it, so using it right away before anything else should be enough to keep my hand free.

Yeah, if you use it before you get into Strikes you'll be golden.

Ricka Draws wrote:

Edit: common sense tells me that scroll thaumaturgy and gloves of storing should work together but... The gloves state that I need a "free" hand which I don't quite have as I'm holding my implements

You are 100% right - I forgot that I've got an unusual situation going on that enables it (Mind Smith and Quick Draw resulting in a free-action summonable/dismissible weapon, essentially). You can still keep store/draw most implements with the glove though, which can help action economy when you don't already have everything set up walking into a fight. Alternatively, creating or buying Retrieval Prisms as already noted.

[Ricka Draws]

I could take the talisman Feat to create the prisms for free but I don't like the idea, I would anyways buy a few ones for emergencies to draw scrolls of heal

[Littimer]

Ricka Draws wrote:

I could take the talisman Feat to create the prisms for free but I don't like the idea, I would anyways buy a few ones for emergencies to draw scrolls of heal

I agree - if you have reliable access to merchants, buy them. Even in a game with no real access to commerce for the early game (Tyrant's Grasp 2e conversion), I didn't find the talisman feat worth it. I wish they were Level-3 instead of half level, because they were just coming online way too late for us across Combat, Exploration, and Social.

[Ricka Draws]

Yeah, they look underwhelming compared to free scrolls of any tradition

It's kinda amusing how knowledgeable is the thaumaturge even if you don't use intelligence at all, he can potentially memorize formulas for the talisman crafting and know how to inscribe all common spells from all traditions without a spellbook or familiar to keep track of them, not to mention that diverse lore allows him to remember just about anything about any topic.