I've already had this question answered for me, but now I'm wondering again because the wording of Shove's subordinate Stride is similar. When you Administer First Aid to dying and bleeding creature, can you make a Medicine check for one ailment then a separate check for the other? I assume no infinite loops are allowed; the subordinate Administer First Aid can't have its own subordinate Administer First Aid.
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I've already had this question answered for me, but now I'm wondering again because the wording of Shove's subordinate Stride is similar. When you Administer First Aid to dying and bleeding creature, can you make a Medicine check for one ailment then a separate check for the other? I assume no infinite loops are allowed; the subordinate Administer First Aid can't have its own subordinate Administer First Aid.
Not as part of the same 2-action acivity, no. You would have to spend another 2-actions to Administer First Aid again for the second condition.
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If a creature is both dying and bleeding, choose which ailment you’re trying to treat before you roll. You can Administer First Aid again to attempt to remedy the other effect.
No, that is not setting up an infinite recursion by having Administer First Aid call Administer First Aid.
Administer First Aid doesn't have any subordinate actions. One usage of the action treats one condition. If a creature has both conditions, pick which one to treat and treat that one. Then if you feel the desire, you can use Administer First Aid a second time to treat the other since Administer First Aid doesn't have any cooldown time.
As for Shove, you can use a Stride action as a subordinate action if you succeed or critically succeed at the Athletics check, but you couldn't make a second Athletics check as part of the same Shove action to continue moving the target.
I got confused because both actions say "You can <action_name>." What causes Administer First Aid to behave differently? (Not a rhetorical question.)
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I got confused because both actions say "You can <action_name>." What causes Administer First Aid to behave differently? (Not a rhetorical question.)
It says you can do it again. It's a clarification.
Whereas the You can Stride for Shove is part of the result of the Athletics check. That is not the case for Administer First Aid.
I got confused because both actions say "You can <action_name>." What causes Administer First Aid to behave differently? (Not a rhetorical question.)
Yes, this is a bit of a problem. The wording could use cleaning up.
But the Ambiguous Rules rule would indicate that recursion is not going to work.
It could be ruled that you do get to make both checks for both bleeding and dying with one Administer First Aid activity, but even that seems to be too much.
It could be ruled that you do get to make both checks for both bleeding and dying with one Administer First Aid activity, but even that seems to be too much.
Too much? That sounds to me more like "throwing the dog a bone." It would only be giving a chance to remove the dying condition (or increase it) and an smaller chance to grant an even smaller chance to remove the bleed (or cause more bleeding). Maybe it's not necessary to be able to remove both conditions with one use, but it doesn't seem like it would be broken either.
The only other way that I know of to do that is with Root to Life. Which takes a class feat from a specific class.
So getting that as a universally available action - even with the addition of having to roll - seems a bit too much to me.
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I've already had this question answered for me, but now I'm wondering again because the wording of Shove's subordinate Stride is similar. When you Administer First Aid to dying and bleeding creature, can you make a Medicine check for one ailment then a separate check for the other? I assume no infinite loops are allowed; the subordinate Administer First Aid can't have its own subordinate Administer First Aid.
If a creature is both dying and bleeding, choose which ailment you’re trying to treat before you roll. You can Administer First Aid again to attempt to remedy the other effect.
The language is a little loose but it is saying that you can do something, meaning something later, not do it now as part of this activity.
There is no out and out ban on infinte loops. Time Beacon used to be one till they errated it.
The best we have is the general rule
you must complete one action or activity before beginning another
Which all it really means is the loop would have to be enabled by a specific explicit rule.
In the Shove example the Stride is enabled. To make it truly infinite you'd need a Shove that triggered with a free action off a Stride to go with it. I don't think that exists.