Kingdom Rules 2e, Revised (pet project: feedback wanted)

[n8_fi]

Hi everyone!

I've been working on revising the kingdom rules for almost a year now and literally this week my players are founding their kingdom and I got the rules into a beta state. This revision project was heavily influenced by Vance & Karenshara's work. There may also be a few things that slipped through with my specific game's rule-set which differ from the core PF 2e game.

But more to the point, I'm hoping other people can take a look at what I have here and see what might need a bit more fine-tuning. It's a tremendous amount of text, and much of it is still quite similar to what is presented in the core Kingmaker kingdom and warfare rules, so I also included a changelog to make notes on what has changed and why I changed it to be the way it is in my revision.

Anyway, please check out these Kingdom Rules, Revised.

PS: I honestly don't know what is and isn't fair-use when posting stuff like this online, so if I need to put some kind disclaimer on the PDFs or remove all the images from these versions I printed for my players, anyone who is more knowledgeable please let me know.

[VanceMadrox]

I'll be happy to go over your Revised Rules but it may be a week or two before I can get to it.

[n8_fi]

VanceMadrox wrote:

I'll be happy to go over your Revised Rules but it may be a week or two before I can get to it.

Awesome, thank you! And for sure, I hear ya, moving slow in hobby space is usually a given, haha.

[TexSIN]

Will this still use any normal Kingdom Tracker we find online or Paizo official one? I didn't see one in the folder.

My group is probably 2-3 months out from running Kingmaker 2e, but super excited to try these out. I haven't read the normal ones yet but I really like all the details you have in the main document so far especially with all the different govt choices (not sure if thats included at all in the base adventure)

[n8_fi]

TexSIN wrote:

Will this still use any normal Kingdom Tracker we find online or Paizo official one?

Yeah, it is still compatible with the Paizo Kingdom Sheet. I'm working on a revised kingdom sheet as well, but part of that is going to come out of my players telling me which sections are most and least useful on the existing sheets, so it'll probably be around a month before I have that made.

TexSIN wrote:

all the different govt choices

The government choices I listed are the same options given in the existing Paizo kingdom rules. I thought about adding some more options, but I felt the existing options covered the range of probable government types.

[Paul Zagieboylo]

This looks really good! My group will be starting their kingdom sometime in the next few months so I'm looking for improvements and fixes (since the printed rules are.... not amazing). I'll definitely want to read through this more carefully, but here are some initial questions and observations:

NPCs in Leadership Roles: Do NPCs get 2-3 leadership actions every Kingdom turn, just like the PCs? It seems like it would be a pretty significant balance dependency on the number of PCs if they do not, but I'm not sure how many of the leadership actions are actually worth spamming 24 times per turn.

The General Kingdom Rules (p. 9) give restrictions on which NPC leadership roles are automatically invested, stating that more invested roles may be added or changed with the New Leadership activity. However, the New Leadership activity (Skills p. 4) doesn't provide any way to invest a role without changing the current officeholder. Is this intentional?

Additionally, most of the companions explicitly max out at 8 Influence Points (or even 6) in their original social encounters, but you've set the requirement for investment at 12 IP. Maybe I'll have to tell my players to start chatting up Amiri again! Just curious about the reasoning behind this decision. 12 IP seems REALLY high, unless players are constantly dragging companions along on adventures to chat them up every night (which I have generally discouraged my players from doing).

Additionally, the bonuses that the officeholder gives to some of the roles (which I really love! I was going to do something like this myself) don't quite match up with the provided recommendations in some cases. In particular, Linzi is no longer a competent Counselor (although she's a good Ruler or Magister), nor is Amiri an especially good Warden (or anything else but General). On the other hand, Ekundayo and Jubilost are now pretty good Viceroys, which they honestly should always have been in the first place! (In the printed version, no companion enjoys the Viceroy role.) "Half of the proficiency bonus excluding level" is too confusing for Warden; just spell it out.

I think you may be seeing the Counselor role a little bit differently than Paizo intended, in that you seem to be focusing on the "advise others" portion (Int/Wis based) while Paizo clearly leaned more into the "liaison with the populace" role (which would be Int/Cha-based using Performance or Society). Honestly I might just mostly swap the Ruler and Counselor investment benefits, so the Counselor can spend an action to gather input from the people on the kingdom's problems while relying on their own Society or Performance training, while the Ruler can always use Statecraft and their own Int/Wis bonus to back up any of the other leaders.

Feats: The Crush Opposition feat (Warfare) is listed in the table, but doesn't seem to exist. I generally love what you did with the feats though; there are so many and they are actually somewhat balanced (looking at you, Practical Magic).

Building On Rough Terrain sidebar: Deserts is misspelled, and Plains/Grassland isn't listed. I don't know what "Shorelines" is supposed to represent that would be different from "Lakes".

Focused Attention action: seems to have the effects in the description, as well as in the actual effects (and they don't match).

Table K-X4 Army Gear: I know you just alphabetized this table and went on with your life, but please put Vision Enhancers in level order instead, because this arrangement is too ridiculous.

Enhanced Weapons: the individual items list "enhanced armor".

Special Armies: you didn't include any statblocks for them. Are you just assuming that the ones given in the printed version are fine? You're probably right; it doesn't seem like you made too many changes to this area in the first place.

I have a lot more careful reading to do on Skills, Buildings, and maybe Events, but I'm really liking what I see so far!

[Paul Zagieboylo]

Claim Hex: the action (Skills p. 3) states that it grants 10 Kingdom XP, but Table K-1 Kingdom Size (General p. 2) suggests that this should scale inversely with kingdom size. I prefer the scaling, a lot. Small kingdoms are just too hard to level up otherwise.

Craft Luxuries critical success effect: This sentence contains the word "number" three times. I recommend: "Gain d4 Luxuries for each Resource Die rolled."

Pledge of Loyalty: The description suggests that certain groups may be more or less susceptible to approaches involving each of the skills, but no guidance on this is actually given.

[Paul Zagieboylo]

Provide Care: The results on this seem wacky. It reduces Unrest on a success (an important and hard-to-get effect), but on a critical success it INSTEAD reduces a Ruin (a not-so-important and easy to spam effect). Should it also reduce Unrest on a critical success?

Spammable Leadership actions: With respect to my previous question, I went through and looked for all the actions that might actually be worth doing over and over, every Kingdom turn. Here's what I ended up with:

• Craft Luxuries: While this is "spammable", there's no reason to do so because you can do as much as you want in one action. Also, Purchase Commodities for Luxuries (8 RP for 2 Luxuries is 4:1) is slightly more efficient than Crafting them except for small kingdoms (d8 RP for 1 Luxury is 4.5:1), unless your Arts or Industry skill is much better than Trade. I think the ratio on Craft Luxuries is right and Purchasing them should be even more expensive.
  
• Focused Attention: it's the Leadership version of Aid, it's fine I guess and needs to be there, but try to find something better to do
  
• Quell Unrest: is this once total per Kingdom turn, or once for each leader? Seems like it's intended to be once overall, but other actions (e.g. Provide Care) call that out clearly and this one doesn't. I'm assuming it's once per turn, total; Unrest is supposed to be hard to get rid of.
  
• Repair Reputation: yup, spam this like crazy, it won't go out of style
  
• Take Charge: probably spammable but why bother? Unless you have a specific Region or Civic activity you want to Take Charge of, it only generates a tiny amount of RP. Also, Taking Charge of a Region or Civic activity should require you to use the same skill for Take Charge as you plan to use for that other activity.
  
• Hire Adventurers: depends on the prevalence of continuing events, but you're unlikely to need this more than 2 or 3 times per turn
  
• Infiltration: I like this one. I don't know how useful it will actually be, but it makes sense and it's quite spammable (assuming you're good enough at Intrigue that you're mostly safe from critical failures)
  
• Supernatural Solution: basically similar to Focused Attention, it's good but needs something to support
  
• Creative Solution: see Supernatural Solution
  
• Request Foreign Aid: does the cumulative penalty apply overall, or tracked separately for each foreign partner? Either way, there should be a penalty for doing this TOO much.
  
• Manage Trade Agreements: should probably forbid managing the same trade agreement more than once per turn. Also, if we need more spammable actions (which we do!), this could be changed to be just one trade agreement per action; it seems pretty powerful if you have a lot of trade agreements.

This is... not a lot of spammable actions that actually do things. There are several I didn't include because they have anti-spam mechanisms built in, but are still worth doing once every other turn or so. This doesn't help us get to 24 actions per turn. Maybe 24 leadership actions per turn is just way too many.

Region Activities: Assuming that "most" of the time, kingdoms will want to spend as many region activities on Claim Hex as possible... there are too many other things that you would need precious region activities to do, that just don't even come close to competing with Claim Hex. Yes, Claim Hex has the bonus "this action is free" on a critical success, but that's not something to count on. Maybe Claim Hex should be moved into its own category, so it stops outcompeting all the more interesting (but less powerful) region activities. This would also help all the weird verbiage about the number of times you can Claim Hex per turn.

Establish Settlement: should probably mention that the hex needs to be claimed, also for several other region activities, unless that's intended to be the default, in which case the "remove a danger" use of Clear Hex needs to call out that it can be used outside your borders.

Clear Hex: I know Paizo glued the two uses of this together into a single activity, but it was a mistake and just causes lots of confusion elsewhere. Just separate them into two activities: Clear Terrain and Remove Danger.

Boating: is still trash and needs a lot of propping up. Making Go Fishing a leadership activity instead of a region activity would help. Probably not enough, but it would help.

Trade Commodities: consider renaming to Sell Commodities.

Wilderness: better than Boating but still kind of bad. Making Hunt and Forage a leadership activity would help here too (and should definitely be done if Go Fishing is changed).

[VanceMadrox]

A lack of useful repeatable Leadership actions was one of the big issues in the base rules as well.

[Paul Zagieboylo]

VanceMadrox wrote:

A lack of useful repeatable Leadership actions was one of the big issues in the base rules as well.

Yes, that's how I knew to watch out for it. This revision helps some, but I'm not convinced it's enough. Although I guess I left out Purchase Commodities in my list above for some reason. That's quite repeatable and you'll probably need to quite often, unless you're VERY diligent in getting your work sites set up. I would want to see how many commodities you really need, compared to how many are easy to get.

[n8_fi]

I've updated the general rules and skills (and some minor copy-edit changes to feats and armies) to v0.91 based on your comments!

There's a Changelog 0.91 for more detail, but to answer your questions/ observations in broad-strokes:

• I agree that 24 leadership activities was feeling like it was going to be a major time-sink. I reduced the number of leadership activities for NPCs to 1 (2 with a town hall or similar), which gives good reason to have PCs in leadership positions
• That's a very good point about Linzi and the purpose of the Counselor. Changed it to Wis/Cha instead of Int/Wis
• It actually makes a lot of sense to me that Amiri would be a great general but only a middling Warden. War and tactics are her specialty, not organizing people against Intrigue
• Crush Opposition was a feat I planned to include, but ended up feeling was unnecessary so left out. It's been removed from the table.
• Plains/Grassland aren't included in Building on Rough Terrain because they aren't rough terrain and don't incur an RP cost for building.
• "Shoreline" was meant to refer to those along seas and oceans, which aren't really pertinent to this setting, but may be in others. Tides and waves are more prominent in these areas which are worse to build on than lakes and rivers.
• You're right that I didn't include special armies because their stat blocks are easily managed with the altered rules as well. Also, I intended all of the rules expansions except the Events to be player-facing, so I kept the special armies out for spoiler reasons.
• Claim Hex's 10 XP was just a copy-paste error
• The variance of efficacy for Pledge of Fealty with different skills is basically at GM discretion, much as trying to convince or Influence someone with Deception, Diplomacy, or Intimidation would be different and should follow the general PF 2e "Setting DCs" guidelines
• The original Provide Care behaved as you noted, but as I had written it in v0.9, you get the reduction in Unrest and reduce Ruin on a crit. It doesn't reduce as much Unrest as Quell Unrest though, so it's still a moderate action economy.
• I changed the cost of Luxuries in Purchase Commodities to 12 RP, so that it's only less efficient to Craft Luxuries when you have d12 RD
• Much like in the base game, I think people undervalue the bonus from Aid when it comes to getting big bonuses and increasing your odds of a crit
• Quell Unrest is in fact once per kingdom turn total. The default for leadership activities are once per leader per turn, so the Special entry is modifying that, but I reworded to make it more clear.
• Repair Reputation should not be something you do overly frequently, as it isn't exceedingly common to accrue Ruin like it is Unrest. Unless you are super unlucky with Events or attempting too many checks where your odds of crit failure are high, it shouldn't be all that difficult to manage Ruins
• Take Charge before was meant as a way to apply your leadership bonuses to non-leadership activities, but that was a pretty minimal effect. Now it lets you basically trade leadership activities for region, civic, or army activities, which also helps alleviate the too-many-leadership-activities issue, especially at early levels
• Supernatural and Creative Solution are much like Focused Attention (Aid) and are more valuable than you might think, especially if your kingdom has high ranks in Magic/Scholarship
• The original rules were unclear with Request Foreign Aid and I just glossed over it. Good shout. I made it diplomatic-ally-specific but also generally increased the DC to make it less spammable as it's quite good
• Reducing the number of trade agreements that can be Managed and allowing any number of uses is a great idea. Included. (You always get the one for free during the commerce phase, but it can be a good use of leadership activities for a treasurer too)
• Region activities can be helped out by Take Charge now, which should help early on especially
• Splitting Clear Hex into Clear and Prepare is a good idea. Implemented
• Boating is pretty niche, but it would still be critical to a campaign with seafaring trade and war. The +4 bonus to Establish Trade Agreement is nothing to sneeze at either. But I did double the amount of Food gained by Go Fishing (which is also accessible through Take Charge as a leadership activity now)
• Wilderness-specific skill actions are a bit lackluster, but they do have Abandon, Claim, and Reconnoiter Hex which will be frequent

So yeah, very good feedback, thank you!

[Paul Zagieboylo]

Just the change to Take Charge that it now gives you an *extra* Region or Civic activity in place of your Leadership activity fixes so many problems it is not even funny. Why did I not think of that? It's interesting that you made it so that a substituted activity now requires two checks instead of one (a first to Take Charge successfully, and then a second to actually do the thing). I've decided I like this.

I disagree with not putting Plains in the terrain costs table. Even if it's not very rough (it's 1 RP in the original printing), it needs to have SOME cost. Is it your intention that Preparing, Fortifying, Building Roads (!), Irrigating, or Establishing a Work Site (!!) should be completely free in Plains hexes without rivers? Because that's what you've got right now.

I agree that declaring Amiri as a good Warden always seemed weird to me, too. I think Paizo got Amiri and Valerie backwards.

More comments later but I have to get to work!

[Paul Zagieboylo]

I still... don't love the wording on Request Foreign Aid. Maybe I'm being excessively obtuse and/or pedantic, but it's just not really clear to me how it's supposed to work. Suppose I have three allies: Brevoy, Mivon, and Gralton. For the sake of example, we'll say they're all normally DC 20 allies. Now, some kingdom turn, things are going poorly, so I Request Aid from Brevoy. This is clearly a DC 22 Statecraft check; so far so good. Let's suppose it fails. That sucks, I really needed the help, so now I call up Mivon. Is this check now at DC 22 (as would be standard for Mivon) or DC 24 (with one cumulative penalty)? Your comments here suggest that it should work separately, so this second request would be against DC 22 and increase only Mivon's penalty, but I would want to see this spelled out more clearly. I get the aid I need and go on with my life.

However, on the next kingdom turn, something even more ridiculous occurs and I need more aid. Obviously I can't ask Brevoy or Mivon because they're all tapped out, so I call up Gralton for some help. This would clearly be the same situation as Mivon before. However, at the end of this turn, do the penalties for Brevoy and Mivon decrease? Sure, I've Requested Aid from someone, but not from them... I personally feel that they shouldn't; the "neediness" penalties should only decrease when you make it through an entire turn without begging for help at all from anyone. Does that make sense? So having more allies still helps if you're constantly in need of Foreign Aid, but only to a certain point; you really have to start standing on your own at some point.

[Paul Zagieboylo]

Investment bonuses: As previously mentioned, I love that you added these, and I also love that they don't matter THAT much, so it's not so critical when you don't have them available. But given that they exist, I think it's very strange that half are based on the official's abilities, and half on the official's skill training. It should be all one or the other; I vote for skill training. That's definitely the way I'm going to rewrite it for my party, but I'm curious about your opinion.

[n8_fi]

Thank you again! My comments came out sounding a bit more defensive than I’d like, so I’d just like to reiterate that I really appreciate your feedback and that it helps point out areas for me to really think about why I have them a certain way.

Regarding Plains not being rough terrain, I see what you’re saying but I actually do think it’s appropriate that there’s no RP cost to develop in that terrain. First off, there’s still an action cost, which is still significant. Second, there are many actions which require similar or greater expenditure of resources (Provide Care, Send Diplomatic Envoy, Recruit Army) which do not require RP to perform. Then there’s also the thematic reasoning that putting in a road or irrigation or trenches (what Fortify Hex puts in by default) in a plains requires little to no resources, just man hours, which are generally not covered by RP. And finally, 1 RP is a negligible cost except in the earliest points in kingdom building, at which point you’ll likely be far more limited by the number of actions available given the massive amount of work that needs to be done at that stage.

Request Foreign Aid’s “neediness” penalty increases for each attempt; in your example, the DC for the second check with Mivon would be 24. This seems reasonably straight-forward from the current text as-written. I think only a long-winded example would spell it out more clearly, and I don’t think that’s a good use of page space. Also, I think the current function of the neediness penalty is justified seeing as your Allie’s are likely to hear of your inability to handle your own affairs and not look kindly on it; of course, at GM discretion, there’s always the possibility that an ally takes pity on you and you gain a circumstance bonus to your roll, or that you have an opportunity to enter an economic or political deal to get the benefits without rolling or with a reduced DC. For the most general cases, however, I do think the current iteration of Foreign Aid works though.

I made the leadership investment benefits a 50/50 split on abilities and skills intentionally, as I didn’t want to punish a leader going for a more generalist skill approach nor a build with more spread-out ability modifiers. Also, thematically I think it’s fitting that some leaders rely more on their proficiency in related skills while others rely more on raw talent and ability.

[Paul Zagieboylo]

Thanks for the clarification about Foreign Aid. I think it's reasonable either way, although your interpretation makes cultivating multiple allies less valuable; but I think Manage Trade Agreements is probably a good enough reason to have multiple allies, with Foreign Aid reserved for more emergency situations. In this case I would recommend changing the paragraph describing the neediness penalty to read "cumulatively increases the DC of further attempts from all groups by 2" (emphasis indicates added text).

That's a reasonable opinion about the split for the mechanism of investment bonuses. I disagree, but I certainly see where you're coming from. I will probably change this for my group, because I would prefer to emphasize training rather than natural ability for kingdom leadership, but it's clearly a matter of taste.

Special Units: I LOVE this idea, although I'm not a huge fan of the name: I would suggest something like Auxiliary Platoons. I have two questions:

• Are all the possible special units provided by kingdom feats? Or did I miss one somewhere that's just always available?
  
• Is there a cost to add a special unit? It seems like there should be; at least it should require either a Train Army or Outfit Army activity (or something equivalent), but most of them are good enough that I feel they should come with some persistent cost.

I still have to go through the feats in detail; I'll hopefully get to this next week.

I do want to make clear: I'm sorry if it feels like I'm picking at nits here! I wouldn't bother with detailed feedback if I didn't think that this was mostly pretty good already. I mostly give feedback not because I absolutely think something is wrong, but because I think you might not have thought something through enough in your own mind, and I like to force game designers to do that. Even if I end up changing a handful of things in... like 4 months when my PCs get to this point, you have saved me SO MUCH effort I can't even imagine.

[dyoung418]

n8_fi wrote:

Hi everyone!

I've been working on revising the kingdom rules for almost a year now and literally this week my players are founding their kingdom and I got the rules into a beta state. This revision project was heavily influenced by Vance & Karenshara's work. There may also be a few things that slipped through with my specific game's rule-set which differ from the core PF 2e game.

But more to the point, I'm hoping other people can take a look at what I have here and see what might need a bit more fine-tuning. It's a tremendous amount of text, and much of it is still quite similar to what is presented in the core Kingmaker kingdom and warfare rules, so I also included a changelog to make notes on what has changed and why I changed it to be the way it is in my revision.

Anyway, please check out these Kingdom Rules, Revised.

PS: I honestly don't know what is and isn't fair-use when posting stuff like this online, so if I need to put some kind disclaimer on the PDFs or remove all the images from these versions I printed for my players, anyone who is more knowledgeable please let me know.

This is great -- thank you for putting this together. Out of curiosity, what program did you use to create these PDFs? I'd like to make some changes to a personal copy, but am not sure how to go about that -- I would imagine I'd need to first export from these PDFs into a document program that I could edit and then re-save to PDF. Is that what you did?

[Fuzzymancer]

Hi,

this is awesome stuff and while I use Vance & Karenshara's modifications, I love what you add to it. The document is also designed very well. May I ask what you used?

[n8_fi]

Hey! Sorry for the super slow response, I'm in grad school so the semester really sapped a lot of my time.

Paul Zagieboylo wrote:

Special Units:

• Are all the possible special units provided by kingdom feats? Or did I miss one somewhere that's just always available?
  
• Is there a cost to add a special unit? It seems like there should be; at least it should require either a Train Army or Outfit Army activity (or something equivalent), but most of them are good enough that I feel they should come with some persistent cost.

Currently, all the special units are added by kingdom feats. The idea is that it's modular though, so potentially something else other than a feat could add them in the future.

There's no specific cost to adding a special unit, other than it requiring you to Train an Army that doesn't already have it. The real "cost" is that you can only have one special unit in an army at a time, which then causes you to have diminishing returns if you start taking multiple special unit feats or other kingdom choices.

[n8_fi]

dyoung418 wrote:

Out of curiosity, what program did you use to create these PDFs? I'd like to make some changes to a personal copy, but am not sure how to go about that -- I would imagine I'd need to first export from these PDFs into a document program that I could edit and then re-save to PDF. Is that what you did?

I rewrote everything and formatted in Word, since that process generally helps ingrain the rules in my head a bit better. Then exported from Word to PDF. If you want to make changes, I think using something like Adobe PDF would be a good idea to import the PDF doc, make changes, then re-export to PDF.

[n8_fi]

Fuzzymancer wrote:

The document is also designed very well. May I ask what you used?

I just did things in Word. I've been making and tuning homebrew items, classes, etc. for 2e basically since its full release, so I just have a good Word template set up. There are better and easier options (like GM Binder and such), but I'm a bit of a luddite when it comes to those things haha.

[Paul Zagieboylo]

Time to necro this thread! I transferred this into a more accessible format for my players, and encountered a handful of typos, questions, and so forth while doing so.

• Does Irrigation have any purpose? It doesn't seem like it, if the rivers created are normally considered non-navigable (which I assume is true because of the Boating feat Canal Aptitude, which makes them navigable). I added a bonus 1/2 Food production for any farmland that shares a hex with a river (including an Irrigation canal) or freshwater lake.
  
• Wooden Walls have no skill entry for construction; it should be Defense DC 15.
  
• Planning Bureau has no description.
  
• The descriptions and effects for Thieves' Den and Thieves' Guild seem to be pretty much copied from one another.
  
• I regularized the "improved shopping" effect of buildings, because it was just too confusing. All "improved shopping" effects stack to a limit of three levels above the settlement's real level. If my players want to build multiple temples in one city, I don't care enough to stop them.
  
• I regularized the "upgrade multiple structures" effect too, just for Temples, Castles, and Universities. This also has the effect of being able to upgrade two identical small structures into a single big structure; I'm fine with this.
  
• Trade Commodities was incompletely renamed to Sell Commodities throughout. I recommend a big search.
  
• A few missing entries in the big table at the top of Skills, most notably Build Structure (but there were a few others, I didn't take notes, sorry!)

On the whole: thank you so much for putting this all together so concisely!

[Paul Zagieboylo]

An addendum: Training DCs for Army Tactics are mentioned in the Train Army activity, but are completely undefined. This isn't your fault; it's this way in the printed version as well. I assume it's supposed to be a Standard DC based on the tactic's level. You also forgot to include anything about attaching special units to the Train Army activity.

The Skirmisher and Siege basic units don't actually have an amount of ammo listed for their ranged attacks; it should presumably be 5 shots in both cases.

The skirmisher example in Record Statistics under Recruiting an Army seems to be referring to a level 5 army, not level 1.

[Icosiel]

Thank you for necro'ing this thread. I wouldn't have stumbled across it otherwise.

[punkzilla]

Does anyone have a spreadsheet or tool to help run kingmaker, but with these homebrew rules? I quite like the new rules this homebrew comes up with, and I have a google sheet for some other rules, but I was hoping someone else had maybe merged the two or made something I could steal instead of just trying to make something myself.

[Here4daFreeSwag]

Following from kadance's sources link, it's good to have some various revised Kingdom Rules 2e stuff out there, n8Fi and PaulZagieboylo. ;)