I'm looking at fire mephit and they receive fast healing 2, while touching fire. Does this mean that if the mephit is dropped in combat, while in a square with fire, on its following turn it gets back up with 2HP and receives a wound 1 condition? Meaning it would repeat this until reaching wound 3 when dropping it would kill it outright?
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They're NPCs, not PCs, they don't interact with those Dying rules at all, they hit 0, they are dead-dead, fast healing or not.
NOW, if the GM decides the Fire Mephit is a crucial and important NPC they might decide to apply the Dying Rules to them and in which case that would be true but the example you give doesn't really suggest that this example NPC is so important.
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It is not quite as clear cut as PC - non PC.
If they have these regenerative type powers the GM can use the dying rules for them
At his discretion of course.
My players were very surprised with how I played Trolls in this system.
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Yeah, considering that the Death and Dying rules specifically call out NPCs with healing abilities as ones that the GM should consider using the full Dying and recovery rules for - it is certainly misleading at best to state in unqualified terms that a fire mephit would immediately die when dropped to 0 HP in a square with fire.
At the GM’s discretion, villains, powerful monsters, special NPCs, and enemies with special abilities that are likely to bring them back to the fight (like ferocity, regeneration, or healing magic) can use these rules as well.
Fast Healing is certainly a healing magic special ability that is enough like regeneration to qualify.
Fast Healing is certainly a healing magic special ability that is enough like regeneration to qualify.
About the only difference of merit is that regen can reattach dismembered limbs whereas fast healing can't.
About the only difference of merit is that regen can reattach dismembered limbs whereas fast healing can't.
I would think it was that dying can't increase past dying 3 (i still want to see that FAQed regarding its interaction with doomed and similar)
i still want to see that FAQed regarding its interaction with doomed and similar
Agreed.
For those curious, see previous discussion about it.
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This is all 100% Rule 0 territory where the GM has to OPT to use the Dying Rules as an exception, sure it provides guidance where they might want to do so but by default, unless otherwise stated, they die at 0 HP.
Even Trolls and the like have a whole special paragraph detailing how their special Regeneration works and how to disable it and these even shouldn't use the Dying rules because doing so sidesteps the method by which they are intended to be killed as it is as simple as a -4 STR Sprite lightly jabbing the troll 3 times after it goes unconscious at 0 HP to put it down forever.
Only really mission-critical NPCs should interface with the Dying Rules IMO, normal Fast Healing functions on mook/goon/dime-a-dozen enemies like mephitis certainly almost never fall into that category unless you're trying to setup a special GM-PC or Unique NPC for the game.
So yeah, again, default for NPCs is dead at 0 HP unless the GM has a really good reason to use discretion which is again, Rule 0 which is something that can't really be accounted for in general Rules Discussion board threads without sending the whole thing off rails with "but what if the GM decided NOT to follow the normal rules" type questions and back/forth that has no objective answer or conclusion.
This is all 100% Rule 0 territory where the GM has to OPT to use the Dying Rules as an exception, sure it provides guidance where they might want to do so but by default, unless otherwise stated, they die at 0 HP.
Even Trolls and the like have a whole special paragraph detailing how their special Regeneration works and how to disable it and these even shouldn't use the Dying rules because doing so sidesteps the method by which they are intended to be killed as it is as simple as a -4 STR Sprite lightly jabbing the troll 3 times after it goes unconscious at 0 HP to put it down forever.
Only really mission-critical NPCs should interface with the Dying Rules IMO, normal Fast Healing functions on mook/goon/dime-a-dozen enemies like mephitis certainly almost never fall into that category unless you're trying to setup a special GM-PC or Unique NPC for the game.
So yeah, again, default for NPCs is dead at 0 HP unless the GM has a really good reason to use discretion which is again, Rule 0 which is something that can't really be accounted for in general Rules Discussion board threads without sending the whole thing off rails with "but what if the GM decided NOT to follow the normal rules" type questions and back/forth that has no objective answer or conclusion.
Disagree here, but since it is explicitly GM discretion there's no hard way to prove who is right and who is wrong. I find this against the spirit of the stated rule.
Even Trolls and the like have a whole special paragraph detailing how their special Regeneration works and how to disable it and these even shouldn't use the Dying rules because doing so sidesteps the method by which they are intended to be killed as it is as simple as a -4 STR Sprite lightly jabbing the troll 3 times after it goes unconscious at 0 HP to put it down forever.
Is this meant to be sarcasm?
Because otherwise you are showing a very low regard for the game rule and creature writers. Why else would they put regeneration on a creature other than to have it make such creatures hard to kill?
Even Trolls and the like have a whole special paragraph detailing how their special Regeneration works and how to disable it and these even shouldn't use the Dying rules because doing so sidesteps the method by which they are intended to be killed as it is as simple as a -4 STR Sprite lightly jabbing the troll 3 times after it goes unconscious at 0 HP to put it down forever.Is this meant to be sarcasm?
Because otherwise you are showing a very low regard for the game rule and creature writers. Why else would they put regeneration on a creature other than to have it make such creatures hard to kill?
Yeah, ultimately that's my stance. Fast Healing I can get not being bogged down with yo-yoing, but to suggest trolls should just stay down feels super wrong to me and against the spirit of what these monsters do.
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Well, color me red I guess I brushed up on Fast Healing and Regeneration and it seems I was just plain wrong as it seems like anything with any form of these is ALWAYS forced to use the full Dying Rules and doesn't simply just sit at 0 and ignore the Dying/Wounded/Doomed track pending HP going back to 1 or higher to have them regain consciousness.
That said, I must have phrased what I WAS trying to say poorly, not that it matters now but my point was that if creatures with Regeneration did interface with the Dying Rules that it bypassed the whole need to shut down Regeneration as the real Death when using those rules kicks in at Dying 4 (or Dying 4-X where X Wounded is applied) when, in fact, the Regen/Fast Healing rules all seem to account for it right in the Traits/Regen listing/Creature Family/Ability Description for it individually.
My reading of things was just plain flawed as my assumptions and understanding were wrong.
I guess these are indeed intended to be far more popcorn+double-tap themed than I had ever run them, learn something new every day I suppose. I haven't run too many creatures in combat versus a party with these so I'm not TOO shocked I glazed over it but I'm surprised regardless. Thanks for helping bring me around on it politely.