As the title says, ae 'Mind Sword' & 'Tempered Champion' compatible archetypes?
I don’t see why they wouldn’t be. They alter/replace different class features. It’s just up to you to determine if the Tempered Champion’s bonus feats are worth losing channel positive energy AND spellcasting.
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Both the archetypes seem to modify the paladins spell list. Mind Sword adds spells to the list, and Tempered Champion eliminates spell casting. Even if they are compatible it would not allow the paladin to use the psychic spells, since the character would not have any spell slots to cast them with. All you would get from the Mind Sword is Mind Arsenal, and Touch Treatment.
I don’t think they are actually compatible. If they are compatible you are giving up way too much for what you get.
Technically, you’re right. Practically, if we start going beyond what is explicitly replaced or modified in an archetype, we’re opening a can of worms. I agree, however, that this combination gives up far too much in exchange for five feats that won’t do as much for a Paladin.
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Practically, if we start going beyond what is explicitly replaced or modified in an archetype, we’re opening a can of worms.
I think the opposite is true, the can of worms is letting archetypes that clearly alter/replace the same thing stack because they don't use the specific language. Also note that the first couple of books (APG, UM, and UC, most notably) did not yet have the "this alters X" language, if you go strictly by that text's present, you're allowing some very clearly unintended stacking for those, or you have to apply a double standard.
This FAQ explicitly supports this, as it cleary says that even minor additions count as altering a class feature.
I agree in principle, but I wonder how many Archetypes would also suddenly become open to subjective debate.
I agree in principle, but I wonder how many Archetypes would also suddenly become open to subjective debate.
Its a lot, but that's how the rules are written, and how the FAQ clarifies that it works.
In theory the "this replaces/alters XXXX" should be just to show things that aren't immediately obvious, but in practice the writers never had a standard way of writing this down. Eg. the Divine Hunter Paladin archetype clearly didn't quite understand this:
Divine Bond (Su): At 5th level, a divine hunter forms a bond with her deity. This functions as the paladin’s divine bond ability, except the bond must always take the form of a ranged or throwing weapon (excluding ammunition). In addition to the listed abilities, a divine hunter can add the distance, returning, or seeking special abilities to her weapon, but she cannot add the defending or disruption special abilities. Special abilities added to throwing weapons function normally when the weapon is used in melee. This ability replaces the standard paladin’s divine bond.
This ability is clearly Altering Divine Bond, not Replacing it. But whatever, its clear what you're getting and it clarifies that you can't take another archetype that alters/replaces Divine Bond. I'm sure there are other archetypes that are less clear.