I’m asking this because there is a different damage die when using a melee Produce Flame when using it through the Oscillating Wave Psychic Dedication (https://2e.aonprd.com/ConsciousMinds.aspx?ID=3), so I’m wondering if I can apply this with a ranged Spellstrike.
My thinking is that this could work since the arrows essentially delivers the spell in melee but I’m checking how that would fly RAW since this is for PFS so "check with your DM" wouldn’t really be a good answer.
Thanks a lot in advance for your insights!
Telekinetic weapon deals less damage because of the splash and imaginary weapon is only available at level 6 at which point I will retrain my conscious mind :)
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There is not two versions of Produce Flame, what the spell says is
This is normally a ranged attack, but you can also make a melee attack against a creature in your unarmed reach.
The Psychic modifier is:
When using produce flame as a melee attack, increase the damage dice of the initial damage (but not the persistent damage) from d4s to d6s.
It's clear you can only use Produce Flame as a melee spell attack when the target is within your unarmed reach, so no you can not use the "melee version" when using a ranged Spellstrike.
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There is not two versions of Produce Flame, what the spell says is
This is normally a ranged attack, but you can also make a melee attack against a creature in your unarmed reach.The Psychic modifier is:
When using produce flame as a melee attack, increase the damage dice of the initial damage (but not the persistent damage) from d4s to d6s.It's clear you can only use Produce Flame as a melee spell attack when the target is within your unarmed reach, so no you can not use the "melee version" when using a ranged Spellstrike.
What about using a ranged strike within unarmed reach? Obviously you risk an Attack of Opportunity but its definitely legal (characters do it all the time)
There is not two versions of Produce Flame, what the spell says is
This is normally a ranged attack, but you can also make a melee attack against a creature in your unarmed reach.The Psychic modifier is:
When using produce flame as a melee attack, increase the damage dice of the initial damage (but not the persistent damage) from d4s to d6s.It's clear you can only use Produce Flame as a melee spell attack when the target is within your unarmed reach, so no you can not use the "melee version" when using a ranged Spellstrike.
I disagree with this interpretation, Starlit Span specifically allows you to use touch spells at a ranged distance. For me, the part about not being in unarmed reach is thus irrelevant. The Starlit Span class feature specifically allows you to deliver spells as if you were in melee range.
With magic, the sky's the limit, and you can't be bound by the confines of physical proximity. Your power reaches as far as your senses can perceive, transcending the space between you and your target even with spells that normally require direct physical contact.
When you use Spellstrike, you can make a ranged weapon or ranged unarmed Strike, as long as the target is within the first range increment of your ranged weapon or ranged unarmed attack. You can deliver the spell even if its range is shorter than the range increment of your ranged attack.
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Yes you can use spells with the range of "Touch" but Produce Flame doesn't have a range of "Touch". It has a special rule in the spell where if you are within your unarmed reach you can make a Melee spell attack instead of a Ranged one. If you cast it outside your unarmed reach, you can't make a melee spell attack, and therefore it's not buffed by Oscillating Wave.
But I would argue that the spell is within unarmed reach thanks to the arrow which delivers it.
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Spellstrike only does one thing to spells: Ties the results of the Spell Attack Roll to the Strike you make, which typically is a higher modifier.
All Starlight Span does beyond that is change the "range" of the spell to match the first range increment of the weapon you are using.
So for example, if using a Longbow with Produce Flame, the range would go from 30ft to 100ft. Everything else about the spell stays the same, including the fact that if you can only make a Melee spell attack with the spell if you are within your Unarmed reach.
i will ride in this post to ask another question, do the psychic dedication oscilatting wave allow you to remove or add energy ? its not clear to me
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i will ride in this post to ask another question, do the psychic dedication oscilatting wave allow you to remove or add energy ? its not clear to me
I have no idea, but it's not really mechanically relevant to those with the archetype since you can't get anything that would synergize with it (Only Surface cantrips, so no entropic wheel or redistribute potential).
The dedication does say "You gain the normal benefits and the amp for this psi cantrip, but not any other benefits from the conscious mind." so I think it's best to assume you are not able to swap energy types of the spells you get from the dedication.
i will ride in this post to ask another question, do the psychic dedication oscilatting wave allow you to remove or add energy ? its not clear to meI have no idea, but it's not really mechanically relevant to those with the archetype since you can't get anything that would synergize with it (Only Surface cantrips, so no entropic wheel or redistribute potential).
The dedication does say "You gain the normal benefits and the amp for this psi cantrip, but not any other benefits from the conscious mind." so I think it's best to assume you are not able to swap energy types of the spells you get from the dedication.
it's actually relevant because you can make your cantrip go around weakness, like a produce flame doing cold damage against cold weakness to deal better damage than any other cold cantrip. its niche, but exists
i will ride in this post to ask another question, do the psychic dedication oscilatting wave allow you to remove or add energy ? its not clear to meThe Oscillating Wave:
Energy can't be created or destroyed, only transferred or changed. Whenever you use your magic to add or remove energy, you must then balance it with the opposing force. The first time in an encounter that you cast a granted spell or a standard psi cantrip from your conscious mind, decide whether you're adding energy or removing it. Once you add energy, you must remove energy the next time you cast one of these spells...
If I understand it correctly, when you initially cast Produce Flame you would choose to add or remove energy dealing either fire or cold damage. The next time you cast Produce Flame in that encounter you must then do the opposite. And you continue oscillating back and forth throughout the encounter.
Thus, if your first casting adds energy for fire damage; then your second casting must remove energy for cold damage; on the third casting you must add energy, on the fourth casting you must remove, and so forth.
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And as I also pointed out, Psychic Dedication states you don't gain any benefits from your conscious mind other than the one cantrip you pick, meaning you shouldn't get that benefit.
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The point of the damage buff to Produce Flame is to incentivize being in melee, which very few spells do. I personally wouldn't let what I think is a very clear intention be violated on a technicality, and I would not count on another GM doing so either.
And as I also pointed out, Psychic Dedication states you don't gain any benefits from your conscious mind other than the one cantrip you pick, meaning you shouldn't get that benefit.
I was under the impression that Conservation of Energy is a requirement of Oscillating Wave, not a benefit; i.e. if you are an Oscillating Wave Psychic, even by multiclass, you must conserve energy.
Is my impression wrong?
Telekinetic weapon deals less damage because of the splash and imaginary weapon is only available at level 6 at which point I will retrain my conscious mind :)Telekinetic projectile does more damage when amped and choice of physical damage is superior to fire. If you are only worried about damage, you should just use gouging claw.
It does not, TKP does 1d6 (+2d6/level) + spell mod while amped whereas produce flame deals (1d10 + 1 splash)/level + spell mod. So even with the ranged damage die it is clearly superior in damage to TKP. Produce flame also deals 1d4 persistent damage / level on a crit.
In theory, you’re also only supposed to use TKP when there are objects that you can target. I don’t know if it could come to that but it is not totally outside the realm of possibility that a GM could choose to say that there are no such items in certain situations.
I agree changing damage types is very useful though, so is the push back, so I can’t argue that Produce Flame is strictly better.
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It does not, TKP does 1d6 (+2d6/level) + spell mod while amped whereas produce flame deals (1d10 + 1 splash)/level + spell mod.
Please re-read the Produce Flame Amp
You project pure heat that causes a target to combust. The initial damage changes to 1d10 fire damage (not adding your ability modifier) plus 1 fire splash damage. When using amped produce flame as a melee attack, increase the damage dice of the initial damage from d10s to d12s. You are not harmed by splash damage from amped produce flame.
Average damage per level for Amped Produce Flame:
1 - 6.5 (7.5)2 - 13 (15)
3 - 19.5 (22.5)
4 - 26 (30)
5 - 32.5 (37.5)
6 - 39 (45)
7 - 45.5 (52.5)
8 - 52 (60)
9 - 58.5 (67.5)
10 - 65 (75)
Average damage per level for Amped TKP:
1 - 7.5
2 - 14.5
3 - 21.5
4 - 28.5
5 - 35.5 (36.5 at level 10)
6 - 43.5
7 - 50.5
8 - 57.5
9 - 65.5
10 - 73.5
As you see, even as a level 2 spell TKP out damages Produce Flame.
If you can reliably use it in your unarmed reach, it will out damage TKP, but since you have to be in melee range it's not really worth the risk, especially since Imaginary Weapon is so much better than all other psychic cantrips.