Am I the only weirdo who prefers EXP?

[CorvusMask]

I mean, I prefer PF2e experience system to 1e/SF one, but am I still only gm who will obsessively count xp for players even if players don't count it and use the encounter exp guidelines? x'D

[Driftbourne]

Having only played Starfinder and PF2e organized play, I can't say it's even crossed my mind. Compared to my old D&D days, I guess that means I don't even miss it. It's one less thing for GMs or players to track. With the tighter math in Paizo's newer games having the party level up at milestones helps keep things on track.

If I were to use exp I do like PF2s system for it.

Also could depends on how you play the game if exp is useful or not.
Old D&D used to give exp for finding a treasure, encouraging players to seek and find treasure. If you want to encourage growing in power to overcome challenges encounter based exp works. If you're running story driven games milestones based on story progress makes sense.

[CorvusMask]

Thing is that I use exp for gameplay pacing :'D So in otherwords, I design stuff for the level the players are in, so when they level up that's when its time to design encounters for higher level rather than "Man I really want to use monster that would be too high level for players, so they better level up faster!"

[Sharkbite]

Years ago, I had abandoned rigid XP in favor of milestone leveling.

The current SFS system is 90% ideal, in my opinion.

The only frustration that I seem to find with it is the difficulty of playing a single character through any Metaplot story after Season 1 that doesn't end up a hodgepodge of nonsense.

Looking at Season 6's announcements as an example:

SFS 6-01: 1-4
SFS 6-02: 3-6
SFS 6-03: 3-6
SFS 6-04: 9-12
SFS 6-05: 5-8

So if you walked into Season 6's new content with a character that already had 11 XP under their belt, you could play #1 and hit level 5. Then play 2-3, still being level 5. Then... need to time travel backwards and pick up 10 extra Scenarios outside of the Season 6 story in order to earn enough XP that you qualify for minimum entry for Episode 4. And then you are too high to do Episode 5.

By the 4th adventure, you have interrupted your character with more random adventures than what you have done with the actual story, and by the 5th adventure, you just can't play anymore.

It makes it really hard to play through an ongoing narrative when the level ranges make it impossible to play through the narrative in order, let alone play through it without the majority of it being from an entirely different season's arc. I don't know if this bothers other people or not, but for me, it is something I have no clue how to work around.

[John Mangrum]

While the Metaplot-tagged scenarios do work best narratively if played in order of release, by no means do you have to play every scenario in order. #6-04, for example, isn't tagged as being part of the Fortune's Fall storyline, but is a sequel to #4-09.

I'm close to wrapping my Scoured Stars home campaign, based entirely on SFS scenarios, and have all six seasons mapped out in a workable "narrative" order. I could post that "grand outline" later if there's interest.

[Driftbourne]

Season one had a big advantage. It had 39 scenarios, but it needed to because there were no past scenarios to fill in with. With the current season being around 18 to 20 scenarios, even if they were all leveled in the correct order. By the end of the season would be limited to playing no higher than level 5 or 6. Seasons would have to run longer than a year to get around this, like season one did.

[Driftbourne]

CorvusMask wrote:

Thing is that I use exp for gameplay pacing :'D So in otherwords, I design stuff for the level the players are in, so when they level up that's when its time to design encounters for higher level rather than "Man I really want to use monster that would be too high level for players, so they better level up faster!"

If you're making the adventure as you go that makes perfect sense. It's hard to set milestones if you don't know where the next mile is.

[Noven]

I haven't used exp in a d20 system in so long I cannot even remember. Hell, I just think it is used by my in video games and that is it. It always just seemed like an "extra" think to keep track.

[Dragonchess Player]

Experience points are what you could call a "legacy" system mechanic that was originated to help reward "active" participation during game sessions over more "passive" play. PCs needed to bypass hazards/obstacles, disarm traps, kill things, negotiate, etc. to "earn" experience; the more they did, the faster they leveled.

It takes more effort to track individual encounters and experience awards, however, so leveling based on plot progress is one way to streamline the campaign to help ensure the PCs can handle the expected scenarios. An open/"sandbox-like" style of gaming may find it more useful to track experience than a structured AP/designed plot arc.

Whatever works for your group in that specific campaign...

[glass]

CorvusMask wrote:

I mean, I prefer PF2e experience system to 1e/SF one, but am I still only gm who will obsessively count xp for players even if players don't count it and use the encounter exp guidelines? x'D

I prefer to use XP, both as a player and a GM.

OTOH, I really don't like the PF2 implementation of XP - way to much unnecessary arithmetic.

[CorvusMask]

Its pretty much simple though, you always get same amount of exp from the encounter difficulty

[BigNorseWolf]

yes

[Yakman]

Dragonchess Player wrote:

Experience points are what you could call a "legacy" system mechanic that was originated to help reward "active" participation during game sessions over more "passive" play. PCs needed to bypass hazards/obstacles, disarm traps, kill things, negotiate, etc. to "earn" experience; the more they did, the faster they leveled.

It takes more effort to track individual encounters and experience awards, however, so leveling based on plot progress is one way to streamline the campaign to help ensure the PCs can handle the expected scenarios. An open/"sandbox-like" style of gaming may find it more useful to track experience than a structured AP/designed plot arc.

Whatever works for your group in that specific campaign...

eh... i think it was more for Gygax to encourage his players to show up for sessions.

[Sharkbite]

John Mangrum wrote:

While the Metaplot-tagged scenarios do work best narratively if played in order of release, by no means do you have to play every scenario in order. #6-04, for example, isn't tagged as being part of the Fortune's Fall storyline, but is a sequel to #4-09.

I'm close to wrapping my Scoured Stars home campaign, based entirely on SFS scenarios, and have all six seasons mapped out in a workable "narrative" order. I could post that "grand outline" later if there's interest.

I can certainly respect that. I'm running a local SFS Season 1 Scoured Stars arc and taking them from 1-9 while following the key plot mostly worked. It's still dumb that Honorbound Emmissaries 1-29 was part 6 of Scoured Stars and was level 7-10, but parts 7&8 are level 3-6. Even the very first Metaplot could not be played in order.

I'm kind of hoping that later seasons get the Scoured Stars treatment and assembled into a viable Adventure Path to let the meta-plots be played in order by a single team.

[Leon Aquilla]

The utility of XP depends on how much player agency you allow/you have.

If you're running an on-rails AP that expects you to go from point a to point b to point c, then yeah, use milestones.

If you're reacting to player behavior and your players don't really do jack, well, why would you reward them with a level?

[Metaphysician]

Leon Aquilla wrote:

The utility of XP depends on how much player agency you allow/you have.

If you're running an on-rails AP that expects you to go from point a to point b to point c, then yeah, use milestones.

If you're reacting to player behavior and your players don't really do jack, well, why would you reward them with a level?

I mean, if your players aren't doing jack, then presumably they didn't achieve any milestones either. Which is to say, milestones shouldn't be set on session count, but on story objectives. Like, in the campaign I'm currently running, the first milestone was "Get your ship repaired". Didn't matter how many sessions it took or how they did it, until the ship is repaired they don't get to level up. Just make sure the milestones are tied to the "main quest", so that doing them constitutes progress through the story.

[John Mangrum]

Here's how I translated the Dead Suns AP into Starfinder Society-style XP milestones (as with SFS, 3 XP = level up).

Advancement Track:

Book 1: Incident at Absalom Station
0 XP: The PCs begin at 1st level.
1 XP (500 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating the Downside Kings at the Fusion Queen.
2 XP (500 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for solving Duravor Kreel’s murder.
3 XP (500 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating the Stiletto.

2nd Level
4 XP (1,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for clearing the Acreon.
5 XP (1,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating the void zombies.

6 XP (1,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating Clara-247 and Moriko Nash.

3rd Level
7 XP (1,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating the garaggakal, resolving the Acreon mystery, and claiming the Sunrise Maiden.

Book 2: Temple of the Twelve
8 XP (1,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for resolving the Qabarat University investigation and entering Ukulam.
9 XP (1,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for surviving the moldstorm and maddened renkroda.

4th Level
10 XP (1,500 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating Salask and all foes at the Stargazer.
11 XP (1,500 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating Avissa.
12 XP (1,500 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for dealing with Penelliar and rescuing Dr. Solstarni.

5th Level
13 XP (3,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating Tahomen and discovering the general coordinates of his off-world allies.

Book 3: Splintered Worlds
14 XP (3,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for reaching the Star-Eater’s Spine.
15 XP (3,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for fully exploring the Star-Eater’s Spine and surviving the Corpse Fleet ambush.

6th Level
16 XP (4,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for determining that the Corpse Fleet and a marrowblight are up to something in Orphys
17 XP (4,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for locating Xerantha Mortrant
18 XP (4,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating Xerantha Mortrant and locating Zeera Vesh.

7th Level
19 XP (5,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating Zeera Vesh.

Book 4: The Ruined Clouds
20 XP (5,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating the Azlanti interceptor.
21 XP (5,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for obtaining both data storage crystals from the House of Renewal and Maze of Ghosts.

8th Level
The PCs will reach 8th level after earning 21 XP, so they’ll level up after two of three locations.

22 XP (6,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for obtaining the admin keycode at the Securitech offices.
23 XP (6,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating the slimes and elementals.
24 XP (6,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating Hybeki.

9th Level
25 XP (10,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating Xavra and locating the Gate of the Twelve Suns.

Book 5: The Thirteenth Gate
26 XP (10,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating the Singularity and the Jangly Man.
27 XP (10,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for contacting Osteth and/or defeating Sisyrus Coldblood.

10th Level
28 XP (17,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating Malice and restoring Osteth.
29 XP (17,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating the “welcoming party.”
30 XP (17,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating Deldreg the Butcher (or forcing him to flee to Null-9).

11th Level
31 XP (25,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating Null-9 and opening the gate.

Book 6: Empire of Bones
32 XP (25,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for boarding the Empire of Bones and clearing Hangar Country.
33 XP (25,000 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating Malakar and unleashing her viruses into the ship’s network.

12th Level
34 XP (37,500 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for completing the grav-train chase and reaching the command section.
35 XP (37,500 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating Captain Nashal and his bridge crew.
36 XP (37,500 credits): The PCs gain 1 XP for defeating Admiral Serovox.

13th Level
37 XP: The PCs gain 1 XP for escaping the Empire of Bones and destroying the Stellar Degenerator.

[Milo v3]

I find experience a valid mechanic if your game requires it, like a point buy game or something like chuubos where xp is innately intertwinned with the narrative moving forward. Starfinder really doesn't require it and doesn't really benefit from it.