there are 2 hexes (Cursed Wound, Swamp's Grasp) and 2 major hexes (Animal Skin, Delicious Fright) in blood of the moon (pg 15).
None of them have their ability type (Su, Sp, Ex) denoted.
I've not been able to find any FAQ regarding this nor are they mentioned in the Campaign clarifications.
I've seen a few people reference them in the fora with "(Su)" following the name but the sourcebook and AON make no such references.
There are few references to these hexes on the forums and none I could find raised the issue.
Does anyone have any opinions on these four?
my opinion:
Cursed Wound SU (all other hexes that use the word curse in the description are SU)
Swamp's Grasp SP ( this on seems more debatable but ultimately is not much different than casting entangle)
Animal Skin SP (mentions it generally duplicates a spell; disguise hex is also a SP)
Delicious Fright SU (this makes changes in both the witch and the target of the hex)
Weird. I never noticed they weren’t all Su. And looking at the existing ones, there doesn’t seem to be much reasoning as to which type they are. Flight is multiple spells in hex form but still Su.
Meanwhile swamp hag has nothing to do with casting and is Sp
Swamp Hag (Sp) (Ultimate Magic pg. 82): While traveling through swamps, mires, bogs, and similar terrain, the witch leaves no trail and cannot be tracked, as the trackless step druid ability. The witch can walk through mud and even quicksand as if it were normal ground.
agreed - Swamp hag should be Ex - same as the druid abilty it is based on.
Animal Skin SP (mentions it generally duplicates a spell; disguise hex is also a SP)
Er, no? Disguise is (Su). As are other hexes imitatign spells like Flight, Healing, Slumber, Tongues, and Hag's Eye.
It should be noted that none of the hexes in the APG are (Sp), only ones from UM an two splatbooks are. I think those break the design principles, and are not to be used as blueprints. I would even go so far as to ay all the (Sp) hexes should be (Su).
In regards to the hexes from BotM, all of them are active, and thus should be the default (Su).
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I agree with Derklord, the SU hexes don't become SP, even when they say that they "work like the XX spell".
Sadly, some hex test is more confusing. The Flight Hex says "the witch can use feather fall", and that is clearly SU, "she can fly, as per the spell,", again clearly SU, but it says "she can cast levitate" too. Normally "cast" is used for casting spells or SP abilities.
As it is illogical to have a hex switching back and forth between SU, SP, and then SU again, the logical conclusion all the effects are SU, but more coherent wording would have made that clearer.
As a rule of thumb, I consider all hex SU unless the ability description says they are SP or EX.
...Er, no? Disguise is (Su). ....
It should be noted that none of the hexes in the APG are (Sp), only ones from UM an two splatbooks are. ...
AON had it as SP (still does at the moment), but I double checked my books and agree that there are a very limited number of exceptions to the rule of hex=SU
Hex Poison Steep(Sp) Ultimate Magic 81
Hex Swamp Hag(Sp) Ultimate Magic 82
Major Hex Hidden Home(Sp) Ultimate Magic 82
Major Hex Speak in Dreams(Sp) Ultimate Magic 82
Grand Hex Abominate(Sp) Magical Marketplace 28
Grand Hex Lay to Rest(Sp) Champions of Purity 27
Grand Hex Summon Spirit(Sp) Ultimate Magic 83
Hex Nails(Ex) Ultimate Magic 81
Hex Poison Touch(Ex) Potions and Poisons 10
Hex Verdant Familiar(Ex) Wilderness Origins 17
Major Hex Witch's Brew(Ex) Ultimate Magic 82
7 of 11 in ultimate magic.
AON had it as SP (still does at the moment)
Weird, because my spreadsheet has it correctly, and I copied the data from AoN. Guess I noticed and fixed it at some point.
You missed a few Ex hexes, Cauldron (APG), Coven (APG), Child-Scent (UM), and Dark Apothecary (Heroes of Golarion).
The Ex hexes mostly make sense, being nonmagical passive effects (except for Poison Touch, which definitely should be Su) - not that making them Su would have any downside - but I don't see a reason for even a single hex to be Sp.
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but I don't see a reason for even a single hex to be Sp.
A few are really powerful, as they can't be interrupted, they scale in power with the witch level and SR doesn't work. So, very rarely, they could have been made Sp to keep them more balanced.
Looking at the list in AoN that doesn't seem the logic applied.Most Sp hexes are stuff that has no reason to be Sp.
Swamp Hag is Sp. Seriously?
A few are really powerful, as they can't be interrupted, they scale in power with the witch level and SR doesn't work. So, very rarely, they could have been made Sp to keep them more balanced.
Ah, that's not what I meant. Sure, making them SP for balance reason could have been done, but that was clearly never made as a design choice. The only offensive (Sp) hex is Lay to Rest (a very poorly made hex from a splat book), literally all others are (Su).
What I meant is that when (Su) is the norm, which I think we all agree is the case, then I see no hex whose functionality gives a reason to make it (Sp).
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The witch, like the alchemist (well, like all classes), would have benefitted from a Pathfinder 1.5 version. Plenty of stuff to streamline, rebalance and clarify.
Pathfinder 2 is a very different game, not an evolution of Pathfinder 1.
The few Sp hexes have no reason to be that, as most of them are personal hexes with long or undefined duration. So, I agree, the default hex is Su.