Orange Prism Ioun Stone Resonant Power Question


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I am reaching out to my other PFS members, particularly my fellow GMs for some clarification about this item. I feel that I know how it works, but it seems way to good to be true.

"Orange prism: Every time the bearer casts a spell, roll 1d4–2 and add this (and the +1 caster level granted by the normal power of the ioun stone) to his caster level. If this modified caster level is too low to cast the spell, the spell fails and is lost."

So I did the math. Say I am have a caster level of 10, +1 for the Ioun Stones normal power and an additional 1 or 2 from the resonant power. This comes out to a 12 or 13.

The modified level always goes up, so how could the modified caster level be to low to cast a spell that I could cast as a level 10 caster?

The way I read and interpret it is that I am now going to always have a variable caster level higher than 10, the stone makes it a 12 or 13.

So, am I missing something or is it supposed to be that way? Because if it is my wizard is definitely saving up for one.

Dark Archive

The Resonant power has 4 options -1, 0, +1, +2 with the added +1 from the stones normal power this becomes +0, +1, +2, +3 Meaning your caster level varies from +0 to +3.

The text was written without realising that the +1 from the Ioun stone means you never have a negative modifier to your caster level (and thus would risk losing the spell).


If you are caster level 10 and use the ioun stone in a wayfinder, your total bonus will be 1d4 -2 + 1. so depending on how you roll, you can get CL 10-13. Now, I don't understand why they put in the bit about caster level too low, but a variable nothing to +3 effect doesn't seem too strong for a 30k item.

There are also 2 drawbacks to putting the ioun stone in a wayfinder in pathfinder.

1. You can only have 1 slotted ioun stone, so you have to weigh this one against what other benefits you may gain by slotting something else.

2. You trade away the constant +1 for a variable +0 to +3. over the long haul, it is usually the right decision, but it depends on what spells you like to cast, if they get any benefit, and back to #1, what effect you could be getting and are not.

Sczarni

RCW wrote:

I am reaching out to my other PFS members, particularly my fellow GMs for some clarification about this item. I feel that I know how it works, but it seems way to good to be true.

I'll still flag this to be removed to the Rules Questions Forum. This is not PFS-specific, and you're really more likely to get the responses you're looking for when your thread is in the appropriate forum.

And, this question has come up plenty of times before. Likely someone can link you to a Dev comment or previous discussion.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You also have to compare it with what else you could get with that 30k gold. So lets look at the primary things increasing caster level will do for you:
- Increase number of damage dice
- Help bypass spell resistance
- Increase duration

As an alternative, 31k gold will get you:
- regular piercing metamagic rod
- regular extend metamagic rod
- lesser empower metamagic rod

Those rods are much more effective at improving the previous scenarios, at the cost of being able to do it less often. Personally, I'd rather have the extra power when it really matters than be a little more powerful for all spells.

As another option, staff of the master is only 18k if you want to talk about overpowered items.


Caderyn wrote:
The text was written without realising that you never have a negative modifier to your caster level

If your caster level was 0, which all non-casters are, the spell would fizzle.

Nefreet wrote:
this question has come up plenty of times before. Likely someone can link you to a Dev comment or previous discussion.

If you know the answer, just post it.

niconorsk wrote:

- regular piercing metamagic rod

- regular extend metamagic rod
- lesser empower metamagic rod

None of those buff CL. If that's what you want, this is the tool you need. Some magic spells can only be buffed by a CL increase. But all magic spells will be, and without taking up higher slots as with metamagic.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Thanks for the input. I thought that I was right, but that description was just strangely worded. When something seems to good I have to question it.

Scarab Sages

I know they don't buff CL, but fyi using metamagic rods doesn't take up higher slots.

My point was just that 30k for that increase is not a given and only something I personally would buy if I was focusing on spells that can only be buffed by caster level increases.

Could you give some examples of such spells? The main ones I could come up with would be the dispel magic/break enchantment type spells.

Dark Archive

Well there is the holy word Bomb, in which a cleric focuses every possible increase he can into holy word to attempt to kill opponents of a higher HD than himself

Gifted Adept +1
Spell Specialisation + 2 (+4 with Spell perfection)
Orange Prism socketed + 0-3
Moon Circlet +2 (very situational)
Strand of Prayer Beads +4 (10 minutes Duration)

Giving a maximum of +14 to your caster level allowing you to force a save or die against creatures of your level +4 (which generally includes end bosses of campaigns)

Grand Lodge

@fireflower: The threads that Nefreet reference go into more detailed reasoning than could be put into a single post, working from memory.

What I remember is that there were speculations that it was because of some 3.5 material that could overlap with it, that could, in a game that incorporates it, give a caster level lower than the caster's actual level, while giving a possibility of boosting the caster level by more than 3...

Wild Magic, or some such, was one thing mentioned, where the caster's spells start out being variable in CL, even before adding this Ioun stone.

@Nefreet: Since it references some PFS-specific stuff, like using Method I resonances, it may not make sense for it to go to the Rules Forum.

@niconorsk: There is always the possibility of buying one of the wayfinders that can slot two or even three stones, too, so you get whatever resonance you would have wanted instead of the CL thing, too.


fireflower wrote:
Caderyn wrote:
The text was written without realising that you never have a negative modifier to your caster level
If your caster level was 0, which all non-casters are, the spell would fizzle.

If you're a non-caster, you don't have any spells to cast which could be affected by the ioun stone. Every character that can cast spells has a caster level of at least 1.

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