I'm making a debuffing cleric, and am currently at level 1. I've narrowed my feat choice down to either Imp Init or War Blessing. I worship Tsukiyo (love the Madness and Archon domains, I plan on going Evangelist for Collective Vision also). War Blessing gives me access to the Repose blessing of Gentle Rest:
"At 1st level, you can fill a living creature with lethargy by hitting it with a melee touch attack, causing it to become staggered for 1 round. If the target is already staggered, it falls asleep for 1 round instead. An undead creature that’s touched is staggered for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier"
Since blessings are supernatural, I figure a way to make any enemy staggered with no save or SR can be pretty valuable, and since I'm planning on using a conductive longspear, I can do it at 10' vs their touch. This could be great no matter my level. The other domains are darkness, madness and law. I would probably lean toward Darkness or Law's blessings for my second blessing, but it's really Repose that draws me.
On the other hand, Imp Init is a solid bonus that can be helpful in every combat.
Thoughts?
J
You're running a debuffing cleric right? War Blessing/Repose seems like a no-brainer. Improved Initiative is more constant than 2/day uses of the Blessing, but a no-save Staggered, even just for a round, can be life altering in a boss fight. At high levels this PC could stand toe-to-toe with a dragon and shut down all its nightmarish melee attacks by robbing it of a full attack round.
My vote would be for War Blessing/Repose. For the other Blessing, Good could give you the same thing as Law but against Evil creatures. Darkness is handy I suppose but I don't think Madness would see a lot of need.
well - you plan to run a debuffing cleric... as you're only 1st level a lot can change based on the home game campaign circumstances.
Deity Tsukiyo LG Domains:Good, Law, Madness, Repose. SubDomains: Ancestors, Archon (Good), Archon (Law), Insanity, Moon, Night, Souls. Fav'd Wpn: Longspear. Unique Spells: nothing of note.
Boons - Deific Obedience(make sure your GM approves) - Evangelist (Entry level) grants: Lunar Phantom (Sp), Collective Vision (Su) use Vision of Madness (1 +[hd/4])targets within 30ft [(3 +Wis)/d], Moonlit Maze (Su).
Vision of Madness (Sp) +[ClrLvl/2] to one and "-" like amount among(attack roll, saving throw, skill check){d20} for 3r [(3 +Wis)/d].
Madness and Chaos are standard domains for debuff.
As a Cleric I'd ignore Improved Initiative as it's not critical to your success (but it would be nice to get it off first) AND there are 3-5 other party members. If you could potentially down a foe it would be more important. Secondly the Divine spell list is not as diverse or deadly as the Arcane spell list. As a debuffer generally Curses and Afflictions take time to really cause problems.
Feats - Magic
There are some crazy Feats like Sacred Geometry. Reach metamagic, selective & versatile channel, and War Blessing(if your deity has effective domain powers) are useful.
Feats - Martial
generally taken early on and it depends on your ability scores and weapons. Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Power Attack, Wpn Focus:Longspear, Lunge... don't forget Acrobatics skill.
If you want to be more martial you could start out as a Fighter or Paladin and then segue into Cleric (a dip ya know).
A +2 conductive(+1) longspear is way off in your future (and it consumes 2 uses of the ability for the effect of 1 !). Spell Storing(+1) seems more cost effective especially if your GM allows maintaining CL & DC.
My advice would be to focus on the basics: Wpn Focus:Longspear, Combat (depends on your scores, high Dex=Reflexes, decent Int=Expertise(feat tax)). Trait wise maybe Magical Knack, Magical Lineage, Fate's Favored, Reactionary.
Elven Branched Spear $20 would be very nice but it's usually and exotic wpn prof and via Wpn Finesse it relieves some Str for Dex(defense)... again, depends on your ability scores.
Bad Touch Clerics thread 2014-03
consult the PF1 Class Build Guides at ZG.
Items that can save you thread
So your build revolves around using a longspear as well as the Archon and Madness Domains? So from L1-L8 this PC is focused on being a reach melee person while also slapping folks with Vision of Madness as a debuff or using the Touch of Good or Touch of Law on someone as a buff, along with your standard Cleric spells focusing on debuffing your enemies.
I'm assuming then that you want a high Wis so foes fail their saves? This also means you want a decent Str to make up for 3/4 BAB and no way to finesse a longspear, but also decent Dex so you can survive close to melee. Here's an idea outside the box a bit: Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack, drop Archon and just take Repose instead.
I get that you want Aura of Menace but hear me out. By Cleric 6 you've got at least a 20 Wis, if not higher, so you've got 8 hits from Gentle Rest/day. This means you can move, slap a foe with lethargy, and then finish your round at 10' from your opponent, effectively suffering no AoOs and potentially setting up a Flank with an ally while also delivering Staggered to a single foe.
No, it's not the typical Weapon Focus/Combat Reflexes/Lunge line for longspear wielders but it delivers a chance to debuff an enemy, put you into a good position for future attacks, and gives you a decent AC when moving through threatened areas if you need to readjust that position. Later when you have a Conductive longspear you've still got 4 of those Gentle Rest touch attacks if need be.
Since activating a blessing is a standard action how will it be used with spring attack?
Thanks for the feedback. Sounds like War Blessing is the way to go, I'll take that and Reactionary to preserve some initiative bonus.
Magical Knack is a good idea so I don't lose a caster level when I take the first level of Evangelist.
Definitely taking Repose, and Law. I cannot take Good, because my alignment has to match any blessing and I am Lawful Neutral. We are starting the Skulls & Shackles AP. I'd much rather take LN than LG. Also, I'm an Undine so I could take Amphibious and Water Sense and not have to worry about underwater combat/spellcasting.
Would it be better to take WF longspear or WF touch attack? I don't plan on doing much damage with my weapon, I am primarily using it as a delivery system for my touch attacks.
My plan was to use a conductive weapon but I forgot that it takes two uses, that blows. Adding it to a +1 longspear costs 6k. I'm not sure if I have a good alternative other than Lunge at lvl 9 because I don't get a feat at lvl 8.
Using Vision of Madness is a key ability for my build but it's an SLA, so it will provoke an AoO. Is there any feat or magic item that lets you use SLAs without provoking? Domain Strike seems like a possibility, but it requires an unarmed strike and I'll be using a longspear. Reach rods don't work with SLAs.
Ultimately by lvl 11 I'll have Collective Vision (Su), Aura of Madness (Su) and Aura of Menace (Su) all going, all unblockable, and they all stack.
J
Just thought of something. What if I took the Reach Spell-Like Ability feat at level 5? Let's say my GM approves it. What would change is I'd have to make ranged touch attacks instead of melee. As an Undine I can get a Dex of 14 with no problems, and add to it with WF touch attack.
Using VoM with it at close range would mean I'd get someone 25 feet away from me. The maximum range increases by 5 feet for every two full caster levels. That's the gift that keeps on giving.
I also wouldn't have to use a longspear if I didn't want to once I hit level 6, I could use a weapon and a shield.
J
With a Dex of 14(+2) Weapon Finesse is better than Weapon Focus(touch) IF your Str is less than 14. It will not work with 2hnd weapons(read weapon descriptions for exceptions). It's good for weapon & shield(avoid Armr Chk penalties) mode or two-weapon fighting. It's not the best feat for spear usage (see list below). Simple, Martial weapon proficiencies are easier to get than Exotic weapon proficiencies.
Top Weapons for Weapon Finesse by Average Damage
6.325 Elven Curve Blade (Exotic)
5.750 Estoc (Exotic) 1hnd WpnFnss| (Martial) 2hnd
5.250 Spiked Chain (Exotic)
4.950 Aldori Dueling Sword (Exotic)
4.950 Elven branched spear (Exotic) brace, reach, +2 AoO from Mov, WpnFnss
4.025 Elven Thornblade (Exotic)
4.025 Rapier (Martial)
4.025 Spiral rapier (Exotic)
4.025 Wakizashi (Exotic)
4.025 Waveblade (Exotic)
3.850 Boarding Axe (Martial)
3.850 Dogslicer (Martial)
3.850 Dwarven Maulaxe (Exotic)
3.850 Gladius (Martial)
3.850 Handaxe (Martial)
3.850 Knuckle Axe (Exotic)
3.850 Machete (Martial)
3.850 Pata (Exotic)
3.850 Quadrens (Exotic)
3.850 Shortsword (Martial)
3.675 -most others-
for comparison for Deity's Fv'd Wpn
4.950 Longspear (Simple) brace, reach
>>> The Game does favor BAB+Str (dmg +(1|1.5)*Str) style combat. <<<
If you stick to EBrchSpear, WpnFnss wpn & bucker options (2 feats in there) you should be fine but will do less than Longspear, Hvy Mace/Morningstar & buckler (0 feats).
Honestly I'd say do the simple route. The WpnFnss with touch atks is pushing you towards a Dex build but only if your Str is 10 as the other way is easier and touch AC is typically lower than regular AC. If you were an archer cleric it would be another reason to go WpnFnss.
Weapon Focus (spear/longspear) will work with any spear/longspear in hand throughout your adventuring career AND it is an entry feat for some feat chains.
Reach is a metamagic feat and your GM should not have any problem with it. It does not work with (Sp) abilities {aka SLAs} as they are formatted/defined.
Reach Spell-Like Ability is a Monster feat so yeah, you'll need GM approval. Undine PC in skulls and shackles acting as a debuffing cleric; to be honest most of the build guides say clerics are better with spellcasting than melee long term, yet all the feats you want to take are combat feats or gaining extra ways to debuff foes.
If you want to use the Repose blessing, the longspear, and be a Wis-based spellcaster, why not just go Warpriest? Weapon Focus (Longspear) is a bonus feat at L1, the weapon's base damage will increase over time, you pick up the Repose Blessing and you'll get a few bonus feats as well. You lose the L1 domain powers and Aura of Menace at L8, but you pick up Swift action self-buff spells from L2 on through Fervor.
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How is your UMD looking? Maybe you've already thought of this, but a Heightened Awareness wand or two will duplicate Improved Initiative and even add a small bonus for Knowledge and Perception rolls, if you can make a UMD roll of 20 and avoid those 1s.
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