The Magus, Runic Charge, Spellstrike, and Natural Spell Combat

[Phoebus Alexandros]

For the purposes of this scenario, the Magus in question has selected Natural Spell Combat twice. Using Beast Shape II, he takes on the form of a Dire Lion, gaining its Pounce ability.

If the Magus has the Runic Charge feat and charges, does he:

1. Gain the ability cast a touch spell as part of his charge and deliver it through Spellstrike
2. Gain the ability cast a touch spell as part of his charge and deliver it through a Spellstrike attack AND use Spell Combat as part of the Full Attack that Pounce grants as part of the charge, thereby getting to cast a second spell and deliver it via a second Spellstrike attack

Or are there other considerations I’m missing?

[Temperans]

Its easier if we break it down.
* Pounce: Charge, make a full-attack at the end.
* Spell combat: Full-round action, make a full-attack and cast a spell.
* Natural Spell Combat: May use a chosen type of natural attack with spell combat.
* Runic Charge: Charge, may cast a touch spell and deliver it as part of the charge.
* Spellstrike: Deliver spell using your weapon.

Spell Combat does not work with Pounce, no matter how you slice it.

Bites and claws do work with spell combat, because of Natural Spell Combat.

All of the abilities work with spellstrike.

Runic Charge works with Pounce (assuming your hands are free).

*****************

You Pounce, as part of the charge you Runic Charge, and deliver the spell using your claw via Spellstrike.

What you want to do requires some upgrade form of pounce.

[Phoebus Alexandros]

I’m inclined to agree. Given the benefit of hindsight, the very premise of my question was backwards: I was thinking of how how spell combat counted as a full attack action for the purposes of haste, and erroneously thought that it might also do so for the purposes of the full attack that pounce provides.

[zza ni]

just make sure you also have a way to cast spells in dire lion form.

also as the ability say you only get claw attack of the off hand that didn't cast the spell ( "For example, a magus could select this arcana twice, choosing claw attacks and bite attacks. This would allow him to use a full-round action to make all of his claw attacks with his free hand and all of his bite attacks in addition to casting a spell") so no claw+claw+bite+spell. it's claw+bite+spell.

[Temperans]

zza ni wrote:

just make sure you also have a way to cast spells in dire lion form.

also as the ability say you only get claw attack of the off hand that didn't cast the spell ( "For example, a magus could select this arcana twice, choosing claw attacks and bite attacks. This would allow him to use a full-round action to make all of his claw attacks with his free hand and all of his bite attacks in addition to casting a spell") so no claw+claw+bite+spell. it's claw+bite+spell.

You are forgetting the extra claw from spellstrike, which would allow doing the full thing.

[zza ni]

na i just included it in the spell as it's part of it (if it's a touch spell. see 'also' below).
if i'd had written it as claw+claw+bite+spell some1 might have misunderstood that there is one more extra claw when using a touch spell.

also not every spell used in this full attack MUST to be touch spells. it depend on the spell used. he can use it for other stuff. since the spell can be cast before, during and maybe between attacks, he can end with dimension door or invisibility -such as a Suprise round attack of pouncing and ending with getting out or invisible. or even bladed dash (/greater). a form with grab+rake can do a LOT of damage to a LOT of creatures with this combo (though i think he'll need beast shape III for rake..).

[Phoebus Alexandros]

zza ni,

Happily, this character is benefiting from homebrew rules and has access to the Natural Spell feat.

Also, I understand the mechanics of Spell Combat and Natural Spell Combat. They’re not the issue. My misunderstanding was purely where those two intersected with the full attack action provided by Pounce, erroneously ignoring that Spell Combat is, itself, a full round action.

With respect, though, I think you’re starting to fall down the same trap I had. Runic Charge specifies that the spell cast MUST be a touch spell. Pounce involves a charge, which is itself a full round action… and thus precludes Spell Combat (and thus non-touch spells).

That said… yeah, the utility of spells like Bladed Dash for this kind of character isn’t lost on me!