Grapple + Sneak attack build


Advice


Hi everybody, i'm relatively new at the game and this is my first post on Paizo.com forums :O
My only campaign as a player so far has been Skulls and Shackles, and with my group we have just started Mummy's Mask. So I've been playing Pathfinder for about 1 year.

I wanted to share with you some things about a build I have in mind. The general idea would be a Grapple + Sneak attack build. Before starting though, I know. I know. The grappled condition does not deny the dex bonus to AC (unlike in 3.5 IIRC?) but instead grants the creature a -4.

But the thing is, I found this beast, a feat named "Strangler":https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Strangler%20(UC)

So, let's get started.

The first thing that come to my mind are, of course, the Rogue/Alchemist vivisectionist, in order to max out the Sneak Attack Damage. If we plan to go with Rogue, then there's the Kidnapper Archetype which helps a lot with the feats: alredy at level 2 and 8, you can substitute 2 rogue talents for Improved and Greater Grapple. If we really want to be cruel, there's also the feat "Throat Slicer": https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Throat%20Slicer which can be used in conjunction with stuff like a light pick, which has a 4X critical modifier, is a light weapon, and requires simple proficiency.

Vivisectionist Alchemist version would basically do the same thing, and since it is compatible with Beastmorph, it quite fixes the fact that both Rogue and Alchemist are 3/4 BAB, which is my main worry about going in melee against a bunch of full BAB barbarians. Not to speak about the good fort save against diseases, curses and stuff, which the rogue does not have but can fix with this: https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Twist%20Away

We could also think about the prestige class "Master Chymist", but we would lose a lot of sneak attack damage.

Maybe the slayer would be a better option, since it is full BAB? We would trade a bit of damage for the possibility of grappling more reliably, and of course it also has access to a full-potential Power Attack/Piranha strike without sacrificing too much "to hit" bonus. Also, we can be helped with Accomplished Sneak Attacker (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Accomplished%20Sneak%20Attack er). One thing that makes me very sad about the slayer, is the impossibility to get a while benefiting of ranger talents. The best thing is probably weapon finesse + agile maneuvers in order not to take too may hits. (Speaking about ranger talents, which path would be the correct way to go?)

Brawler would also be viable option, I think. Full BAB, and Strangler Archetype. With Mutagenic Mauler (compatible) you also have access to Mutagen. But the Sneak attack damage is pitiful. So I dunno.

Cult leader warpriest is nice, for the 4X light/heavy pick + Sacred Weapon combo, and can surpass the 3/4 BAB issue with a lot of spells. BUT those spells would be used as a SWIFT action, which is the type of action that requires the "Strangler" feat. So, no action economy here.

With this, I have concluded my thought process. What do you think I should go for?


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I'm gonna propose starting out with two levels of Strangler/Verdant Grappler and fighting with a Crook.

The two levels of Brawler gives you +2d6 SA to trigger in addition to the feat, negates the dex penalty, and Verdant allows you to tie up a target without losing tempo. Mutagenic Mauler unfortunately doesn't stack with Strangler because they both modify the AC bonus, but this leaves you with Martial Flexibility which is very useful.

For example, you could flex into Rat Catcher if there for some reason happens to be a lot of swarms in the campaign cough cough and nobody to deal with them. And flexing into Dedicated Adversary is always a good idea.

As for the Crook, it's a unique weapon that allows you to grapple foes while keeping them at reach, and you'd apply the weapon's enhancement bonus to your grapple checks. Any foe that lacks reach would be unable to target you with an attack and are locked in place, effectively putting them out of the fight with the first grapple check. You'll want to quickly pin a foe to trigger Green Grasp and move on to the next enemy while the first one is tied up.
And when you choose to maintain->dmg using a Crook would inflict 1.5x Str (and power attack) since it is a two-handed weapon.

After those two levels you could multiclass, and that's probably the best course.

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The Strangler feat is in a weird spot because the end goal of grappling is either to restrict their actions (best done with pin or tie up), or delete them with Throat Slicer (also done by pinning). If you want to specialize in Throat Slicer there's really no point in using Strangler.


If you want a few more dice of sneak attack on the brawler you could always go either VMC rogue or VMC Cavalier (my personal choice) with the Order of the Blossom. Both will net you 4d6 sneak attack by the time u hit level cap. Dip vivisectionist and either ninja or rogue (assuming you went VMC cavalier) to get another 2d6.


Downside of the Strangler feat is it’s incompatible with the Rapid Grappler feat as both use your swift action. Strangler you can get earlier but Rapid grappler is better overall.

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